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What should be done first? Improving EBT or removing fakers?

Improving EBT
29
38%
Removing notorious fakers or at least all of their faked notes
48
62%
 
Total votes: 77

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Post by Senior »

@ All:

I've seen some good comments in this thread (especially by peter_at) which try to counter my opinion. And I got to agree, getting rid of bugs is indeed very important, even more then getting rid of fakers.

On the other hand, I did not make another ultimatum (which was suggested by Osku-82), and I think polls like this are more important that polls like 'what colour have you shoe-laces?'. This kind of polls show what the members of EBT want to be on top of the to-do-lists. Of course there are hundreds of other things what could have been included in this poll, but it was my intention to show if EBT-ers prefer a fancier site or a site without those notorious fakers. And didn't I include options like 'they don't bother me' in the other poll? I therefore don't think Mr Euro's comments are all that fair.

And talking about the measures against these notorious fakers, even some people who voted 'just delete their fake notes' in the other poll said things like "but the 4 or 5 worst ones should be eliminated immediately". And it's just thóse 4 or 5 (no more then 10!) that I'm talking about all the time! When taking this into account I might have over 50% who support my opinion that fakers like Woombel and indianajones should be completely eliminated.
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Post by Mr Euro »

Yannn wrote:
Mr Euro wrote:@Senior

Avij, Philippe and everyone who helps to become EBT what it is, is putting their spare time and money in there. They should decide themselves what they want to do, not what you or other people think they should do.
I can't totally agree with that. Would EBT be some sort of dictatorship, in which the 'EBT people' should simply listen and obey the 'EBT leaders' in silence ? :)
I don't think so, and I'm sure neither Avij, Philippe and the others do. They should listen to users (and they actually do it !), as EBT has grown now, and isn't just their own thing.

So, I think we really should give our opinions about EBT :) Even if, of course, things are often complicated, and if some users' ideas are in fact not very realistic or feasible. But just explain why ! Most of us are sensible persons, I guess ! We're in democracies...
I think you misunderstood my statement. I'm for giving opinions about how EBT should evolve. But if you start nagging and rallying people to get your opinion pushed through, I think you are in the wrong. EBT is a hobby and should stay this way. Everyone who is helping out, should decide what or how he or she helps out. For instance, I decide to organize the first EBTM and gathered opinions in the EBTM-forum about what to do, when,... but at the end I decided where, when and how the day would evolve, because it was my sparetime I put in there. At the end everyone had a great weekend overthere. This is similar what Avij and Philippe do, they read through the forums and decide what they want to develop and develop that. And guess what, they did a great job so far!

And this is my final reponse in the "What to do with notoriuous fakers"-issue, because it's getting to annoy me.
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Post by N0W1K »

Senior wrote:...
On the other hand, I did not make another ultimatum (which was suggested by Osku-82), and I think polls like this are more important that polls like 'what colour have you shoe-laces?'.
Senior, as Mr. Euro told, that's a hobby, so why cannot we have a place for to give opinions about other things different of EBT??? What's wrong with this kind of polls??? or what's wrong having some fun???

I'm agree with you, fakers should be out, but I'm not agree with how are you talking about that. For me seems that you want to create a bad atmosphere here in EBT. And I don't really like this, and like me a lot of people think this...

Please relax and give enough time to moderators (they need to think what to do, how and when), we are giving our free time (and we are giving it unselfishy), we want to enjoy all this and obviusly we want all you to enjoy this, and we are doing all our best for getting that.

Thanks
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Post by soilian »

Mr Euro wrote: EBT is a hobby and should stay this way.
I agree. Though there seems to be some people who are taking this too seriously. Why?
People who fake they want attention and now we are giving it to them. If/when the fakers are deleted from EBT, it's easy to create another account and start again. I'm sure this is an eternity question. There will always be fakers in EBT. Sad but true.

Avij, Philippe and everyone who has made EBT possible: thank you for your efforts! :)
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Post by jabosa2 »

soilian wrote:
Mr Euro wrote: EBT is a hobby and should stay this way.
I agree. Though there seems to be some people who are taking this too seriously. Why?
People who fake they want attention and now we are giving it to them. If/when the fakers are deleted from EBT, it's easy to create another account and start again. I'm sure this is an eternity question. There will always be fakers in EBT. Sad but true.

Avij, Philippe and everyone who has made EBT possible: thank you for your efforts! :)
I agree with you soilian and others. Let's keep EBT a hobby and let everyone try to enjoy this hobby. The fakers, that's sad indeed but let us give the mods time to handle with this problem.
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Post by daniellez »

I do think the mods should be given time in order to deal with this problem. However, personally I would find it a very very sad thing if someone's first hit would turn out to be a hit with a partner who is faking.
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Post by Senior »

@ N0W1K:
N0W1K wrote:Senior, as Mr. Euro told, that's a hobby, so why cannot we have a place for to give opinions about other things different of EBT??? What's wrong with this kind of polls??? or what's wrong having some fun???

I'm agree with you, fakers should be out, but I'm not agree with how are you talking about that. For me seems that you want to create a bad atmosphere here in EBT. And I don't really like this, and like me a lot of people think this...
I'm truly sorry if I gave you the impression that I try to create a bad atmosphere here. I really don't want to do that! :oops: It's just that those notorious fakers annoy me (apparently me more then others) so much.

Concerning the polls, I just wanted to say that I thought polls like this are more important than lots of other polls, since they are about the functioning of EBT itself. It was not my intention at all to say that other polls shouldn't be on this forum. It's evident that lot's of people like them, so no problem there!

@ All:
Anyway, I'll stop argueing about this subject (notorious fakers) since I need my time for other things now. In a couple of days I'll go to South America for at least several months, so I won't be able to use EBT(forum) for a long time.

Have fun with this hobby! :)
Greetings,

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Post by Gauss »

I was going to post this earlier but I didn't find the time, so here it goes now...

Senior, you are right. Fakers are a problem, and they are not always prosecuted as severely as some users may find appropriate. Warnings are issued quite regularly (I could tell you the figure for the last quarter of 2004), and this helps indeed in most cases. Some cases are more complicated and need particular care.

An inherent problem with a volunteer organization is that it is run be volunteers. Volunteers work when they want and have the time to do so. Both constraints are equally important. For most volunteers there are times when either of the two conditions is not satisfied. This can be temporary or permanent, but avij's above-quoted comment indicates quite clearly to me that it is the combination "temporarily not enough time for everything". But when time is the problem, pushing is not likely to help much. [It is worth noting that EBT is the (by far) largest note-tracking website that is entirely run by volunteers. Not that you wouldn't know it.]

The question in this poll is undoubtedly relevant but also a bit useless. Obviously the answer is "both is important" (which was not an option), and the realization of both is subject to the conditions outlined above. The poll, even though the question is relevant, appears a bit in a bad light when compared to the previous polls you quoted and the your last statement in the Suspicious Users thread. I tried to outline reasons why there is ultimately no alternative to patience - even though this may sometimes be hard. And I know what I'm speaking about.

I hope to see you back after your stay in South America! (It'd also be nice to have another [url=irc://irc.stealth.net/ebt]chat[/url], remember?) Happy travels!
______________________________

There was one post in the other thread that inspired me to some more comments:
golfinha wrote:The real question is "why do fakers exist?"
We don't get any money from doing this, at least I never did....It's just for the fun. Being in one of the TOPs doesn't make you any better, so why create false results?!?!?!?
That's called Vandalism, and Wikipedia, for whom this problem is more vital and more crucial, has compiled a nice list of different types they suffer from.

On major difference from EBT to Wikipedia - or at least several languages of Wikipedia - is that we do not have a strict hierarchical structure - there: administrators and normal users.
Everyone who is active on EBT does one, or several, things (if only quietly entering banknotes), but nobody is responsible for everything, and nobody is actually doing everything. I see this as a strength; in particular, there is little "friction" arising from endless discussions how to deal with a specific matter that a dozen people feel involved in. EBT fortunately doesn't need very much moderation, and by far most of what needs is taken care of very quickly. Not all, but most.

And this post got once again much longer than I intended it to be.
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Post by jabosa2 »

Senior wrote:@
In a couple of days I'll go to South America for at least several months, so I won't be able to use EBT(forum) for a long time.

Have fun with this hobby! :)
Greetings,

Senior
I hope you will have a nice time in South America and I really hope you will find some time to come so now and then to this forum and tell us about your experiences from far away. Bye, Bye....
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Post by N0W1K »

Senior, now all is ok for me :)

Have a good travel to South America :)
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Post by giberski »

If I really have to choose, then I'd say improve the site. Why wasting too much time on fakers? The site is the most important thing, that's our main point, right?!?
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Post by milanocapitale »

I think that it's better to knw that all the hits are true even if we could run the risk to moderate sometimes true hits but "strage", it is the "frontiere" hard to manage but i think that if someone has a true doubt about it it have to be considered a "not-hit".
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