I have joined back in 2005 but as you can see from my stats I only took EBT seriously after relocating back to Greece from the United States a few months back. I even got my very first hit today. However, I still do not understand the whole plate/series thing.
I mean, I understand the 9+ serial number sequence, the letter indicating state and printer of origin, and the position of the note on the printer plate. What I do NOT understand is how you guys figure out series etc, in the form of Y**123, and how you can connect this with the printer number...as I recall, another member said it is possible to guess parts of the serial number only by looking at the printer code.
Also since there is no apparent sequence on the 11 digit serial numbers, could someone explain how they are calculated/allocated, as for no apparent reason most U 20 notes appear to have high numbers and nearly all Y's beginning with 00, 01, 02 and 03.
I know all these questions might appear naive to many of you however the forum has grown into something gigantic and given the variety of languages around it was nearly impossible tracking any reliable information on the subject, and at the same time it gives out the impression that it is aimed only at experts.
So I would really appreciate any help on the matter and at the same time I would propose having a prominent area for all new members who want to join in but find the whole thing a little confusing. Maybe a 'frequent q & a' thread on top of all others..?
Thank you for your help
Back to basics...serial numbers.
Moderators: avij, Phaseolus, Fons
- Dakkus
- Euro-Master
- Posts: 4734
- Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2003 3:59 pm
- Location: No Helsinkiem, Somijas / Iš Helsinkio, Suomijos
- Contact:
Re: Back to basics...serial numbers.
Each national central bank (NCB) decides by itself about the logic behind "its" serial numbers. The U-serial numbers belong to the authority of the French national central bank, while the Y-serial is defined by the Greek central bank.
There is no uniform logic behind serial number allocation in Europe, but each bank defines the 10 actual numbers as they want. The two only things defined by ECB (European Central Bank) are the beginning letter of the serial number and that the 11th number is a checksum calculated in a certain standard manner from the other numbers.
The printer code (such as D001G1) includes the following information:
1) In which facility was the note printed
2) When the note was printed (larger number means a later printing date)
3) What was the location of the banknote on the uncut sheet of banknotes
Many national central banks code similar information in different parts of the serial number. When that is the case and we know for example that certain digits of the serial number from a certain NCB tell the location of the banknote on the uncut sheet, we can then use that information to figure out, how the short code should end. For some other information we can maybe figure out some other things about the shortcode.
Some NCBs don't code any such information into the serial numbers, because they can see it also from the printer code. Instead, they just let the numbers "flow on". In those cases it is possible to notice, that notes with a certain type of serial number have a certain type of short code. If they just let the serial numbers run from left to right and up to down on the uncut sheet and you know the width of the sheet, you know that every so and so many banknotes the banknotes are in the same row/column, meaning a part of the printer code is the same.
There is no uniform logic behind serial number allocation in Europe, but each bank defines the 10 actual numbers as they want. The two only things defined by ECB (European Central Bank) are the beginning letter of the serial number and that the 11th number is a checksum calculated in a certain standard manner from the other numbers.
The printer code (such as D001G1) includes the following information:
1) In which facility was the note printed
2) When the note was printed (larger number means a later printing date)
3) What was the location of the banknote on the uncut sheet of banknotes
Many national central banks code similar information in different parts of the serial number. When that is the case and we know for example that certain digits of the serial number from a certain NCB tell the location of the banknote on the uncut sheet, we can then use that information to figure out, how the short code should end. For some other information we can maybe figure out some other things about the shortcode.
Some NCBs don't code any such information into the serial numbers, because they can see it also from the printer code. Instead, they just let the numbers "flow on". In those cases it is possible to notice, that notes with a certain type of serial number have a certain type of short code. If they just let the serial numbers run from left to right and up to down on the uncut sheet and you know the width of the sheet, you know that every so and so many banknotes the banknotes are in the same row/column, meaning a part of the printer code is the same.
Ko saka āboliņš? Pēk pēk pēk!
- R/J
- Euro-Master
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 12:04 pm
- Location: Eindhoven & omgeving, Nederland
Re: Back to basics...serial numbers.
(There is probably too much information here.)
In the German forum, I once found a reference to the German Wikipedia article on Euro banknotes, which list the different systems used by the different countries. I now sort it by different systems.
The numbers just N count from 0 (or possibly 1) upwards.
PP indicates the position of the note on the currency sheet. (e.g. 01 is upper right (A1), next to it 02 (B1) and so on)
D indicates the denomination, for most countries it's 1 = €5, 2 = €10, and so on.
Finland uses three digits for the denomination, for example all €10 are in the range L077-L096.
Austria uses the X and Y position on the sheet instead: 11 = top right (A1), 12 = next to it (B1) and so on. (For €5, it's slightly different, because there are 10 Y positions.)
The French system:
H Slovenia PPNNNNNNNN
U France PPNNNNNNNN
The Finnish system:
L Finland DDDPPNNNNN
The Portuguese sytem:
M Portugal DNNNNNNNNN
T Ireland DNNNNNNNNN
(alternate, using also the position:)
Z Belgium DPPNNNNNNN
The Austrian system
N Austria XYNNNNNNNN
All others:
P Netherlands NNNNNNNNNN
S Italy NNNNNNNNNN
V Spain NNNNNNNNNN
X Germany NNNNNNNNNN
Y Greece NNNNNNNNNN
G Cyprus NNNNNNNNNN (probably)
There are a few exceptions:
Dutch €500 were printed in Austria and follow the Austrian system. Austrian €200 were printed in the Netherlands and follow the Dutch system.
I believe that the Spanish €200 and €500 follow the Belgian system, where they were printed.
Part of the Italian €50 are printed in Austria, they do follow the Italian system, but there is a gap. Italian printed notes go up to S3, Austrian printed start at S6.
However, I have also noted that for Italian and Greek notes, there is information about the shortcode position in the first four numbers and for the newest Dutch €5 you can get the position from some of the middle numbers.
1: France has almost continuously printed €20 notes, Greece has printed relatively few.
2: France's system is different. The first to numbers indicate the position + a constant (because they ran out of serial numbers to use).
Also, if you look at anyone's NIG statistics, on the page "Huge Table" it shows the significant numbers for
In the German forum, I once found a reference to the German Wikipedia article on Euro banknotes, which list the different systems used by the different countries. I now sort it by different systems.
The numbers just N count from 0 (or possibly 1) upwards.
PP indicates the position of the note on the currency sheet. (e.g. 01 is upper right (A1), next to it 02 (B1) and so on)
D indicates the denomination, for most countries it's 1 = €5, 2 = €10, and so on.
Finland uses three digits for the denomination, for example all €10 are in the range L077-L096.
Austria uses the X and Y position on the sheet instead: 11 = top right (A1), 12 = next to it (B1) and so on. (For €5, it's slightly different, because there are 10 Y positions.)
The French system:
H Slovenia PPNNNNNNNN
U France PPNNNNNNNN
The Finnish system:
L Finland DDDPPNNNNN
The Portuguese sytem:
M Portugal DNNNNNNNNN
T Ireland DNNNNNNNNN
(alternate, using also the position:)
Z Belgium DPPNNNNNNN
The Austrian system
N Austria XYNNNNNNNN
All others:
P Netherlands NNNNNNNNNN
S Italy NNNNNNNNNN
V Spain NNNNNNNNNN
X Germany NNNNNNNNNN
Y Greece NNNNNNNNNN
G Cyprus NNNNNNNNNN (probably)
There are a few exceptions:
Dutch €500 were printed in Austria and follow the Austrian system. Austrian €200 were printed in the Netherlands and follow the Dutch system.
I believe that the Spanish €200 and €500 follow the Belgian system, where they were printed.
Part of the Italian €50 are printed in Austria, they do follow the Italian system, but there is a gap. Italian printed notes go up to S3, Austrian printed start at S6.
However, I have also noted that for Italian and Greek notes, there is information about the shortcode position in the first four numbers and for the newest Dutch €5 you can get the position from some of the middle numbers.
This is based on two things:Also since there is no apparent sequence on the 11 digit serial numbers, could someone explain how they are calculated/allocated, as for no apparent reason most U 20 notes appear to have high numbers and nearly all Y's beginning with 00, 01, 02 and 03.
1: France has almost continuously printed €20 notes, Greece has printed relatively few.
2: France's system is different. The first to numbers indicate the position + a constant (because they ran out of serial numbers to use).
Also, if you look at anyone's NIG statistics, on the page "Huge Table" it shows the significant numbers for
My NIG stats have finally disappeared. My EBTST stats are still available.
-
- Euro-Regular in Training
- Posts: 107
- Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:18 pm
- Location: Maroussi, 15125, GR
Re: Back to basics...serial numbers.
Thank you both for your help it is all much clearer now, it makes sense finally.
- Phaseolus
- Forum Moderator
- Posts: 13359
- Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 2:16 pm
- Location: Quelque part ou même ailleurs !
- Contact:
Re: Back to basics...serial numbers.
user g.s.51 has published two books related to EuroBills and their numbering system. It's worth reading it, although I did not understand everything , being a bit mentally limited...
Re: Back to basics...serial numbers.
we should give the books to the printers maybe they will understand there own system