EBTM07: Vote NOW where EBTM07 should take place

[Faubrun]

Erreur

[Fons]

With such a close decision, it would be fair to have two meetings. One in Paris and one in Berlin. Not at the same time of course...

That'd be a great option
I'll try to attend both meetings (I still need only a few letters in both countries to complete my A-Z )

[alex77r]

With such a close decision, it would be fair to have two meetings. One in Paris and one in Berlin. Not at the same time of course...

And not the same year, the winner is the winner

[Dakkus]

Dakkus, I find you have a weird sense of democracy. I understand your point, but it implies that you think that democracy is not a good system because anybody can vote, whatever their motivations are.
In a regular election (I mean a political one), a lot of voters don't choose their candidate for the reason they are supposed to, which would be the ability to lead the city/land/country/whatever. Some will vote for A because he's nice, others because they think he'll favor their personal interest, or because their wife or husband told them to do so.
So, according to you, such elections (that is, all of them) should be cancelled, and therefore democracy should be discarded, in favor of some enlightened oligarchy.
I agree with you, Dakkus, it's a pity : everybody should cast his/her vote according to good reasons... but it's the rule of democracy, all the votes have the same validity.
Moreover, I don't see how you could limit the votes to those who really intend to come. Do you have an idea about it ?
Obviously it's very important for you that Berlin win. You certainly have good reasons for that. Why don't you explain them rather than questioning the rules ? You could convince some members who would follow you.

According to your logic, you should be allowed to vote for the Finnish president. In democracy only people that have something to do with what is bing voted about are eligible to vote.
The Finnish president doesn't affect the French, so the French aren't allowed to vote. The meeting does NOT affect the people who aren't participiating in it, so I see NO reason why everone should be allowed to vote. I have tried asking that for three or four times in the posts above, but I have yet to get an answer.
The goal of democracy would be better met if the people who have nothing to do with the subject of voting would be excluded from the vote.

I am finding the current acting of the EBTM-to-France fanatics disgusting.

And someone said I have a reason to support Berlin. Yes, I do. It's more likely that I can attend the meeting if it's held there. But I do NOT let that affect me in this. Just yesterday I refused to help advertise Berlin, when I was asked to do so. My reasoning was that I want to keep honest. I personally wish that the meeting would be held in Berlin, but that does NOT change the fact that what is now going on is manipulation. What is now going is morally wrong and although it might fulfill the written word for what democracy is, it does NOT fulfill its purpose. I loathe the action the French have taken.
If Paris got the meeting by fair play, I would accept it without any whining.

What is now going on is NOT fair play.

And the Berlin-fans who were gonna launch a competing idiotic propaganda campaign. Refrain from it. Please. Two wrongs don't make one right.

[Gauss]

Having missed most of the previous discussion and being utterly indifferent as to which city wins, I might be accepted as neutral party.

There has been some confusion about the nature of the call for votes on various parts of the forum. It has to be distinguished between an initiative to get involved in EBTMs (and to vote and most importantly to join it in the end!) and a campaign to vote in a certain sense. While the first one could be seen as highly desirable, the second kind is likely to stir up harsh feelings unless it is accompanied by similar campaigns for all other candidates. After all, each voter should, ideally regardless of language skills, be able to make up their mind on the grounds of unbiased information.

It is a pity that the chief organisers of the two candidate cities have not discussed whether, or in which form, they would like to inform the parts of the forum whose users cannot reasonably be expected to find the voting topic themselves. Last time when we had a choice about the location for an EBTM (in 2005), no general campaign was launched, but since then the community has grown substantially, and many active users of now probably will hardly remember those days. I suggest that, next time, such a dispute will be avoided by exchanging just a few words beforehand.

There have been two major criticisms of this election:
1) The creation of fake accounts for the sole purpose of voting in this election. This is a serious issue because such behaviour is an active interference with the democratic principle "one (wo)man, one vote". This holds regardless who started with it. (I gather each party blames the other side for it.)
2) Manipulation of voters in a certain sense by one party. While I cannot deny that the message posted in several forums did clearly suggest to vote in a certain sense - and did by no means simply inform about the fact that a poll of general interest is being conducted, contrary to what has been claimed in defense after unusually harsh reactions - a follow-up with equally emphatic reference to the other candidate would have been a much more constructive answer.

I don't see a way out of this. It is clear that we will have a 51:49 outcome and that - following the best mexican examples - a defeat won't be accepted. Even if it were accepted, the victory will have a bad taste, as if it were achieved by rolling the dice rather than winning a democratic election.

However, it would be a good idea for all sides to calm down and relax. Perhaps an even more neutral authority should roll the dice indeed.

[avij]

87 votes for Paris, 87 votes for Berlin.. really too close to call. Both the candidate cities are really excellent choices, and because of this, we decided to make an exceptional arrangement about the selection process. Read more about it from here. Thanks for your understanding.