Guy Sohier's "Les Eurobillets" site

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Re: Guy Sohier's "Les Eurobillets" site

Post by Kleman »

Mes stats

Monde: 40
France :flag-fr: : 1
Local (Bordeaux): 1

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Re: Guy Sohier's "Les Eurobillets" site

Post by siriusLT »

I haven't found 5€ Mxx/Dxxxxx in the catalogue. Is this a valid combination or is it just a mistake by EBT user entering notes?
https://lt.eurobilltracker.com/notes/?id=211982033
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Re: Guy Sohier's "Les Eurobillets" site

Post by Elmo »

This user is a faker. We - the Cleaning Girls - have him/her/them in sight.
Of all the words of mice and men, the saddest are 'It might have been.' - Kurt Vonnegut
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Re: Guy Sohier's "Les Eurobillets" site

Post by uvy »

Probably another double-signature plate: :note-50: S037 Lagarde
https://enotesprice.com//blog/50_s_s_03 ... europe_184
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Re: Guy Sohier's "Les Eurobillets" site

Post by marty44 »

oh

I'm still hoping that someone has more information about the signature border for S041 ... and now S037 too. ;)
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Re: Guy Sohier's "Les Eurobillets" site

Post by g.s.51 »

In the light of some of the noted issues it appears that the "border" between the Draghi and Lagarde signatures is found on the S041 print in charge S**78/32 and S**78/59.
The last S037 Lagarde discovered are much further away in charge S**83.
To be continued...
As a reminder: An Italian charge contains 1 million sheets.
http://liste.eurobillets.free.fr/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Les eurobillets 2002-2007
Les eurobillets 2002-2009
Les eurobillets 2002-2011
Les eurobillets Millésime 2002 - Millésime 2013
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Re: Guy Sohier's "Les Eurobillets" site

Post by lmviterbo »

I'm not sure I got it, sorry.

If I understand correctly, Draghi S041 go up to at least S**7832, and Lagarde S041 start at the most from S**7859?

Also: I still didn't understand the relevancy of the size of a charge. :oops: If a charge means something like "number of sheets printed in bulk from the same plate and stack of paper," and an Italian charge is indeed 1 million sheets, then shouldn't all S**78 be printed on the same plate? To be clear: from S**78000000c to S**78999999c there are exactly 1 million sheets, right?
As far as I know, however, there are several instances when notes from the same charge, and even printed effetively on the same plate, receive the printer code of different "plate" numbers. I am absolutely sure this happens with Dutch notes at least (as I was told by the NDB itself). I have examples of these "substitution notes" in my "collection". It must happen with a lot other notes from other printing works too.

In the meantime, here's another info that might be relevant for the boundary search: the Draghi S037 note shown at eNotesprice is S**8260.
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Re: Guy Sohier's "Les Eurobillets" site

Post by g.s.51 »

The numbering of the notes is done in letterpress. (typography)
This is the third phase of banknote printing, after offset and intaglio printing.
Experience has shown that some printers - in particular the French and Italian ones - sometimes have a significant time lag between the first two printings and the third. This is due to the way the printed sheets are stored BEFORE the letterpress. It seems that the numbering of the notes is in many cases done outside of any logic of print runs, as it is based on a storage of the sheets, perhaps in a jumble. The printer numbers the banknotes, often being indifferent to the print runs and signatures of the moment.
This is why an Italian (or French) charge of theoretical 1 million sheets may contain several different prints and signatures.
Fifteen years of continuous observation have led me to this conclusion!
http://liste.eurobillets.free.fr/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Les eurobillets 2002-2007
Les eurobillets 2002-2009
Les eurobillets 2002-2011
Les eurobillets Millésime 2002 - Millésime 2013
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Re: Guy Sohier's "Les Eurobillets" site

Post by lmviterbo »

Thanks for the thorough explanation! I believe I have understood everything, and in fact it made me think in a different direction. I already knew those printing phases, but somehow was confused and kept thinking that the printing of the printer code came after the printing of the serial number, which of course is not true.

(Just to be clear: so, if I got that right, the size of the charge is in fact irrelevant on this particular subject of which numbers are Draghi or Lagarde on plates S037 and S041 — is it not?)
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Re: Guy Sohier's "Les Eurobillets" site

Post by Seltaeb »

Tengo 2 billetes Lagarde :note-50: S041 S**6676
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Re: Guy Sohier's "Les Eurobillets" site

Post by giulcenc »

I have just now three :note-50: new consecutive notes, S036 with serial number S**827, but with Draghi signature.

It seems Italian printer did a big mix with "old Draghi" and "new Lagarde" printed sheets before of the serial number printing phase...
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Re: Guy Sohier's "Les Eurobillets" site

Post by g.s.51 »

The strangeness of the numbering of the Italian bills is confirmed once again (since 2002...) in the following continuation of the 50 S/S**66 charge:
1) S**66/22 = S041 signature M.D.
2) S**66/32 = S036 signature M.D.
3) S**66/70 = S037 signature M.D.
4) S**66/74 = S041 signature C.L.
and S**66/79 = S041 signature C.L.
http://liste.eurobillets.free.fr/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Les eurobillets 2002-2007
Les eurobillets 2002-2009
Les eurobillets 2002-2011
Les eurobillets Millésime 2002 - Millésime 2013
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Re: Guy Sohier's "Les Eurobillets" site

Post by lmviterbo »

Now, it looks like there are also S036 CL. dag68 is advertising (and already selling) them at Delcampe.

Furthermore, a new plate: S042, also CL, also advertised by dag68 at Delcampe.
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Re: Guy Sohier's "Les Eurobillets" site

Post by lmviterbo »

g.s.51 wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:47 pm
The strangeness of the numbering of the Italian bills is confirmed once again

Information I collected so far
  • Notes found on Delcampe usually have photo evidence. I am not sure if all the others are credible and correct, though. For example, in the case of S**785972, Royal King registered as MD the same note we can see photos of at Delcampe, and it's in fact a CL.
  • For the time being, I am listing 4 significant digits, because so far I spotted no change of plate or signature in between. Just in case, I am collecting complete serials, though.
  • I am also retrieving the Delcampe links, but not providing them here, in order to leave the complete serials undisclosed.


S**6622 S041MD(Royal King, @ Eurotracer)
S**6632 S036MD(mancuso, @ Delcampe)
S**6670 S037MD(mancuso, @ Delcampe)
S**6674 S041CL(mancuso, @ Delcampe)
S**6676 S041CL(Seltaeb, @ EBT Forum)
S**6679 S041CL(mancuso, @ Delcampe)
S**67?? S036CL(dag68, @ Delcampe)
S**67?? S041CL(dag68, @ Delcampe)
S**70** S026/031MD(several sources, @ Delcampe)
S**71** S026/031/032/033MD(several sources, @ Delcampe)
S**72** S032/033MD(several sources, @ Delcampe)
S**73** S027MD(several sources, @ Delcampe)
S**74** S027/028/033/034MD(several sources, @ Delcampe)
S**75** S028/033/034/035MD(several sources, @ Delcampe)
S**76** S034/035MD(several sources, @ Delcampe)
S**7712 S035MD(mancuso, @ Delcampe)
S**7719 S034MD(mancuso, @ Delcampe)
S**7732 S041MD(mancuso, @ Delcampe)
S**7754 S041MD(mancuso, @ Delcampe)
S**7757 S041MD(Kappastamp, @ Delcampe)
S**7762 S041MD(Royal King, @ Eurotracer)
S**7832 S041MD(francesco4982, @ Delcampe)
S**7859 S041CL(mancuso, @ Delcampe)
S**7894 S036MD(elmuro76, @ Delcampe)
S**7970 S042CL(mancuso, @ Delcampe)
S**7973 S042CL(mancuso, @ Delcampe)
S**8048 S035MD(mancuso, @ Delcampe)
S**8050 S034MD(mancuso, @ Delcampe)
S**8051 S034MD(mancuso, @ Delcampe)
S**81?? S034MD(dag68, @ Delcampe)
S**8258 S041MD(mancuso, @ Delcampe)
S**8260 S037MD(mancuso, @ Delcampe)
S**8263 S037MD(mancuso, @ Delcampe)
S**8271 S036MD(giulcenc, @ EBT Forum)
S**8337 S041CL(elmuro76, @ Delcampe)
S**8344 S037CL(elmuro76, @ Delcampe)
S**8355 S037CL(elmuro76, @ Delcampe)
S**8356 S037CL(mancuso, @ Delcampe)
S**837? S042CL(Berriot, @ eNotesprice)

Note: the photo on eNotesprice (S**837?) is not very clear; it could also be S**836.
Last edited by lmviterbo on Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:05 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Guy Sohier's "Les Eurobillets" site

Post by giulcenc »

lmviterbo wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:45 am
S**827? S036MD(giulcenc, @ EBT Forum)
My notes are S**8271.
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