Which location should be entered?

[ErGo]

Since the Thread Please Moderate / Unmoderate this Hit is not the right place to discuss about this thing, i opened a new topic. Feel free to discuss here.

[ErGo]

So, if I do what presidente wants...

I live in Pori. I go to the Helsinki and some nice Swedish guy let me take a note. I put it in Göteborg because he came from there, not Helsinki (where I saw that note). Funny, because I have never been in the Göteborg (or Sweden).
How that could be right?

absolutely yes!!! If you are sure that come from Goteborg put Goteborg

Absolutly no! I want only dots on my map i were myself! And again the rule sounds: where you got the note and not where you think, it was come from.

[presidente]

So, if I do what presidente wants...

I live in Pori. I go to the Helsinki and some nice Swedish guy let me take a note. I put it in Göteborg because he came from there, not Helsinki (where I saw that note). Funny, because I have never been in the Göteborg (or Sweden).
How that could be right?

absolutely yes!!! If you are sure that come from Goteborg put Goteborg

Absolutly no! I want only dots on my map i were myself! And again the rule sounds: where you got the note and not where you think, it was come from.

so if you have for example your wife (friend, son...lover ) that for work goes in Finland (from Italy or where you want) and come back with 5-6 notes from Helsinky...you put Rome or Wien? For me it's completely wrong!!! you (or your wife..or...) touched first time this notes in Finland so put Finland as location. Playing with your rules you can make hits of several and several km but this km are not the right km because the notes made this km only after it was in your possession.

[Manic]

So, if I do what presidente wants...

I live in Pori. I go to the Helsinki and some nice Swedish guy let me take a note. I put it in Göteborg because he came from there, not Helsinki (where I saw that note). Funny, because I have never been in the Göteborg (or Sweden).
How that could be right?

absolutely yes!!! If you are sure that come from Goteborg put Goteborg

Absolutly no! I want only dots on my map i were myself! And again the rule sounds: where you got the note and not where you think, it was come from.

so if you have for example your wife (friend, son...lover ) that for work goes in Finland (from Italy or where you want) and come back with 5-6 notes from Helsinky...you put Rome or Wien? For me it's completely wrong!!! you (or your wife..or...) touched first time this notes in Finland so put Finland as location. Playing with your rules you can make hits of several and several km but this km are not the right km because the notes made this km only after it was in your possession.

correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the point to follow in where the note goes. Let's imagine that someone has already entered this bill in Helsinki before your friend/son/lover/wife etc. get's the bill. However if you get the note in Wien, that's where the note has really gone? So is the hit you'll get wrong just because somebody took the note from Helsinki to Wien? If that's correct, then all of the hits should be moderated, right? Of course, if you are with this other person and have the possibility to get the notes in hand in Helsinki, of course you enter their location there.

I can see the point what you're trying to say, but as Ergo said before, I think it would be odd to have some dots from where you have actually never been.

[-STAR-]

so if you have for example your wife (friend, son...lover ) that for work goes in Finland (from Italy or where you want) and come back with 5-6 notes from Helsinky...you put Rome or Wien? For me it's completely wrong!!! you (or your wife..or...) touched first time this notes in Finland so put Finland as location. Playing with your rules you can make hits of several and several km but this km are not the right km because the notes made this km only after it was in your possession.

Yes, and the other way round is also wrong according to most users: If above note turns into a hit later on - and there's a good chance if it is spent in Vienna -
the hit reads "Helsinki - Wien" in your case, but "Wien - Wien" in ErGo's case. Both are not completely correct, as this would be "Helsinki - Wien - Wien".

The only two solutions I can think of are:
1.) Strictly do not enter notes at all, that you know come from somewhere else, if you have not personally been there - this is inacceptable to me.
2.) Ask the original note owner to open an account with EBT and enter the note himself/herself, and of course do not enter the note at all,
because another rule says that you must not enter notes if you know they had already been entered to EBT.

I personally know enough other people that let me write down their bills, like my mother for example, or a friend that lives in Berlin, but don't want to
open an account for EBT due to lack of time or just because they think this is crazy and don't want to do it theirselves or just because they cannot
read the short codes any more, like my mother does.

So what's the conclusion? The most common position there seems to be is to not enter such bills, which is unacceptable to me.
If someone has the perfect solution for this problem, please go on and share it with us!

Best regards,
Franz

[-STAR-]

correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the point to follow in where the note goes.

Yes, but also, where it has been.

Let's imagine that someone has already entered this bill in Helsinki before your friend/son/lover/wife etc. get's the bill. However if you get the note in Wien, that's where the note has really gone? So is the hit you'll get wrong just because somebody took the note from Helsinki to Wien?

Not necessarily wrong in this case, when "just somebody" took the note to Vienna. But if someone, like your friend/son/lover/wife etc.
brings the note on purpose to Vienna, just to hand it over to you, this hit location would be wong in my opinion, because the note
would most likely not have made it to Vienna without their help.

If you are with this other person and have the possibility to get the notes in hand in Helsinki, of course you enter their location there.

...as long as you don't actually know that person, that's OK. Deliberately swapping bills in a foreign location with someone you know is not OK.

I can see the point what you're trying to say, but as Ergo said before, I think it would be odd to have some dots from where you have actually never been.

Hold on one moment:
The main purpose of EBT is NOT to have a map of locations where YOU have been, but where YOUR BILLS have been.
The motto of the web page is still "Follow your Euro notes in their tracks" and not "Draw a map of locations where you have been".

Rgds, Franz

[Manic]

..

Yeah, I'm in the "same side" than you. And the factors you pointed out are very important. Personally I don't get anyone to bring me notes on purpose so I wasn't thinking that side so much.

Not necessarily wrong in this case, when "just somebody" took the note to Vienna. But if someone, like your friend/son/lover/wife etc.
brings the note on purpose to Vienna, just to hand it over to you, this hit location would be wong in my opinion, because the note
would most likely not have made it to Vienna without their help.

Yeah, I see also that point, but if the bills were in this other persons wallet and you just enter them not having them brought to you on purpose. Would it then be wrong?

This is actually a really hard thing to solve in any directions.

The main purpose of EBT is NOT to have a map of locations where YOU have been, but where YOUR BILLS have been.
The motto of the web page is still "Follow your Euro notes in their tracks" and not "Draw a map of locations where you have been".

I'm sure aware of that, and my idea was not actually to highlight the map-system. But to point out like you did in your last message that the way to enter the notes is a complex thing.


The only way to get all the notes to right locations would be that every people that uses these notes enter them theirselves. But as we all know, that is impossible

Although this might not lead into anything, I think this conversation is very good and also am liking the thing that different people have different views.

[eddydevries]

First, I personally always use the location where I got the note.

But if there's any doubt, I look to this rule:

Notes received on flights, trains, ferries, etc.
In such a case, you should not enter the note as originating from the city you just passed by when you got it. (This might be very difficult to determine on a boat or a flight anyway.) Take either the last stop or your destination instead.

So the rules say in this case: use the destination of your trip (because you're going there so the note's also going there) or the last stop (so, even if you've not been there yourself).

Example:
Suppose I take the train from The Hague (where I live) to Paris. And I'm buying a sandwich after the train leaves Brussels, I should enter it either as Paris (my destination) or Brussels (last stop previous of where I got the note).
So here it can't be the station where I entered the train (The Hague).
But it can be a place, where you've never been yourself (in this case Brussels).

Conclusion: The location of the note is more important than the location of you in person.
(the ground rule/thought of EuroBillTracker is: Following the NOTES, not: "Following the trackers")

Now (keeping this in mind) let's see what this mean if we got a note from someone else:

1. When I go to my parents and get notes there, it's simple: the location is theirs home.
2. When my parents come to me and I can enter their notes, it's not easy to know where they got them.
   If they got a receipt with the notes, I use that location.
   If they give me a bunch of notes and say we got them all at that ATM, I trust them and use that location.
   But when they open their wallets and give me the notes, I use my home adress, even if they're saying "We've been to 'this' ATM". That's because they can't tell which note was out of the ATM and which note they already had.
3. When I'm travelling with a group by bus, it's more difficult to investigate where THEY got their notes. In this case I look at point 2: enter them on the place you are where you got the note. In this case (because I'm in a bus I have to follow the rule at the beginning of this post) I use the hotel as location.
4. Getting a note at the airport:
   a. If I get a note in a bank or shop myself, it's easy: the location of the airport.
   b. If I get a note from a fellow traveler, it might be more difficult. Than the question is "Was he able to get the note at the airport before I got it?"
   If no (because we just landed): the location of where we took off (like I got the note from him when we would still in that airplane).
   If no (because we just arrived by bus/taxi at the airport) I don't know where he actually got it (it may be at home, but it's also possible he got it on his way). Therefor I enter the note as if I got it on the airport (accoridng to the rule, 'if you don't know exactly where the note came from, enter it at the last location you're 100% the note was there').
   If yes, it's easy: location is airport (same rule as above: you can't know where he got the note, from home, on the way, or at the airport).
5. If I got a note by mail (like it happaens as bearthday present), it depends on the question "Do you know where the note has been?". Up till now I only got notes mailed by my family, so I can use their adress: they got those notes from their wallets, so these notes have been in their house.
   But if I got a note mailed by someone else (if you want my adress, PM me ) and I don't know where (s)he got this note, I'll use my home adress as location.
6. (to be complete ) If you get the note from an EBT-er and you know it: don't enter it.

It's a long list, but I hope you understand me, how I enter my notes.

EDIT: I was spending such a long time writing this message, that there were more answers posted here .

[Mr Euro]

For me it's easy. I only enter notes I personally have had in my hand. I always use the place where I have first received it, sometimes I use the commentfield to tell where I have spend it.

I also enter my parents notes. Sometimes they tell me, where they got it. Then I still place it where I have had in my hand (because I know for 100% sure it was there) and enter in the commentfield the place they say they got it.

It's that simple.

[ravestorm]

If you are with this other person and have the possibility to get the notes in hand in Helsinki, of course you enter their location there.

...as long as you don't actually know that person, that's OK. Deliberately swapping bills in a foreign location with someone you know is not OK.

I'm with STAR, but unfotunately some users adopt this trick to get dots in exotic locations.

I can see the point what you're trying to say, but as Ergo said before, I think it would be odd to have some dots from where you have actually never been.

Hold on one moment:
The main purpose of EBT is NOT to have a map of locations where YOU have been, but where YOUR BILLS have been.
The motto of the web page is still "Follow your Euro notes in their tracks" and not "Draw a map of locations where you have been".

And what about enter notes you got in your homecountry and enter them from your destination(s)?
Imho it's another tricky way to get dots as you're going to track from locations where notes will go not where they have been.

[presidente]

Sorry I didn't read all the posts...because I have to run away..but answer me to this question:

your friend gave you a note because was not a EBT user but if he was a EBT user which location would put on this note? I am sure 100% Helsinky, so we can't "change" the life, the statistic of this note only because your friend is not a EBT user.

[Ewri]

I also agree that we are tracking the steps of the notes and not ours, so if I'm sure that a note was in that country and it was given to me by a person who was in that country and brought me the note on purpose, I usually insert it in that country.

Also, if someone takes a note from a place, gives you the note from his wallet to key in at another place and you're sure that this money will be spent in the first location, then, I enter the notes in the first location, not the place where I had them (since they were just in and out of the wallet).

[SubtleKnife]

1. I enter notes with the location where I get them
2. Were I to work with people 'feeding' me notes from different locations, which I'm not, I would enter the location they got the bills, because we are tracking the note, not the person (I would comment on who got it for me)
3. Were it just a regular interaction with someone I know, then I'd enter it in the location they gave the bill to me, like I'd enter any other
4. If I got a note in an exotic location
   - and I got it from a stranger in the course of normal interaction, I would enter the note in that location
   - and I got it from a stranger in the course of normal interaction whom I later found out to be on EBT, I would enter the note in that location
   - and I got it from a stranger who wanted to swap bills with me - whether I knew them to be on EBT or not - I wouldn't swap and therefore he nor I would enter any bills
   - and I got it from someone I knew who wasn't on EBT, I would enter their home location if we were there together, if we just ran into each other, I'd enter the exotic location
   - and I got it from someone I knew who was on EBT, I would tell them we couldn't do that, and I would actually never get the note
5. If I got the note anywhere else because someone asked to swap notes, I wouldn't do it
6. If I got the note anywhere else from someone I knew to be on EBT, I would tell them we couldn't do that
7. Service on trains is horrible here, so I haven't had to worry about getting any notes, if I stopped somewhere to buy something obviously that's the location I'd enter. And if I bought something in duty free on board an aeroplane, I would enter the departure, rather than the destination, but I would make sure to make sure to mention both in my comment (plus whatever I bought if it wasn't too embarrassing).

[yli]

I don't see the point of entering notes from exotic locations where somebody might have got a note or where a note might have been. I have never asked somebody to write down notes for me.

I prefer to travel myself to exotic locations and enter the notes I receive there.

I believe you can always use the commentfield to tell who gave you that note and where it came from.... like this note

11.07.2008 received from an italian cyclist who must have got this note from Finland (or the ferry

We cycled together from the Finland-Germany ferry to a hotel, so I know he didn't got the note in Germany, but I received it in Germany.

[nossi]

your friend gave you a note because was not a EBT user but if he was a EBT user which location would put on this note?

The answer is clear: You MUST NOT enter this note! (according to the rules)

A big "thank you" to eddydevries! I think, he give us the best explanation of the rules.