Suggestion: short/long hits

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claudio vda
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Suggestion: short/long hits

Post by claudio vda » Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:02 pm

Hi! I have a suggestion, I don’t know if it is a good one, tell me what do you think about it.

At the moment, hits are classified only as national or international: this is good, but not perfect.

For example hits between Kiel :flag-de: and Muenchen :flag-de: (about 680 Km) or between Helsinki :flag-fi: and Karigasniemi :flag-fi: (about 1200 Km) are national ones.
Hits between Vatican City Image and Rome :flag-it: (about 1 Km) or between Givet :flag-fr: and Hastière :flag-be: (about 7 Km) are international ones, but of course less interesting than the first two.

On the side of national/international hits, it would be possible to introduce a new classification: short/long hits. I think a good limit distance could be 25 or 30 km, because of big towns, but we can discuss about that.

I think that the introduction of the classification short/long hits could be very useful, of course without abolishing the old one of national/international. What do you think about that?
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Re: Suggestion: short/long hits

Post by Jes » Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:17 pm

It is an interesting suggestion.

Hits from Canary Islands to Madrid, from Açores to Lisboa, from Sicilia to Roma or even from Pape'ete to Paris (just to give a few examples) would be national hits, but "long" or "extra-long" :)

Both concepts: international and long Hits are interesting. :D
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Re: Suggestion: short/long hits

Post by Dioniz » Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:44 pm

I don't think this is such a good idea. First of all, there's already an option: by clicking "km" in your hit-list you get a list from largest to shortest distance regardless of country. Secondly, it is a matter of taste here: I prefer a 0 km hit with 800 days time-distance to hit with 100 days and 700 km travel-distance brought by somebody from Cyprus in his pocket.
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Re: Suggestion: short/long hits

Post by Kleman » Mon Sep 07, 2009 5:29 pm

Jes wrote: from Pape'ete to Paris

just for information, Papeete is not in the Eurozone
(I know i'm off topic :mrgreen: )
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Re: Suggestion: short/long hits

Post by claudio vda » Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:08 pm

Dioniz wrote: by clicking "km" in your hit-list you get a list from largest to shortest distance regardless of country
But I am not interested only on my own hits :wink: and clicking on "km" on the general list you lost the time listing, so if you are looking for new entries... you don't find nothing!
Dioniz wrote: I prefer a 0 km hit with 800 days time-distance to hit with 100 days and 700 km travel-distance brought by somebody from Cyprus in his pocket.
Well, you can suggest to classificate hits in longtime/shorttime, this is not in contradiction with my suggest
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Re: Suggestion: short/long hits

Post by Jes » Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:07 pm

Kleman wrote:
Jes wrote: from Pape'ete to Paris
just for information, Papeete is not in the Eurozone
(I know i'm off topic :mrgreen: )
:oops: Off topic again: but Euro is usually accepted :P
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Re: Suggestion: short/long hits

Post by Nerzhul » Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:39 am

What EBT needs is a good metric for the "interestingness" of a hit. It should be as simple as possible, transparent, fair, universal and comprehensible. A score by which all hits can be ranked and filtered and whose outcome roughly represents the order a normal, unbiased user would apply.

This would solve some current design issues. We can't just add more and more filters to the UI, it's pretty crowded already. A BI-style "build your own report" approach is also not feasible.

Distance is one option, although a very bad one IMO. What makes a 100 day/100 km hit more interesting than a 2000 day/10 km?

Same with internationality, see examples claudio provided.

I'm open for all suggestions. This is really one of the long-term items on the todo list with no good solution.
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Re: Suggestion: short/long hits

Post by presidente » Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:32 pm

I think will be very difficult find a unique point of view: some users look for easy hit to improve hit ratio and for this guys all hits are interesting.

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Re: Suggestion: short/long hits

Post by ravestorm » Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:29 pm

presidente wrote:...some users look for easy hit to improve hit ratio...
I don't think that's the point as you don't win anything increasing it, thought.
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Re: Suggestion: short/long hits

Post by claudio vda » Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:47 pm

presidente wrote:I think will be very difficult find a unique point of view: some users look for easy hit to improve hit ratio and for this guys all hits are interesting.
Yes, but with the long/short classification, anyone would be deleted, only classed as "short" :wink:
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Re: Suggestion: short/long hits

Post by Math Murderer » Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:40 pm

Nerzhul wrote:What EBT needs is a good metric for the "interestingness" of a hit. It should be as simple as possible, transparent, fair, universal and comprehensible. A score by which all hits can be ranked and filtered and whose outcome roughly represents the order a normal, unbiased user would apply.
Jes and I have been brainstorming in the Test-Forum for a formula. Suggestions for improvements would be highly appreciated. :)
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Re: Suggestion: short/long hits

Post by nossi » Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:26 pm

Nerzhul wrote:What EBT needs is a good metric for the "interestingness" of a hit. It should be as simple as possible, transparent, fair, universal and comprehensible. A score by which all hits can be ranked and filtered and whose outcome roughly represents the order a normal, unbiased user would apply.

This would solve some current design issues. We can't just add more and more filters to the UI, it's pretty crowded already. A BI-style "build your own report" approach is also not feasible.

Distance is one option, although a very bad one IMO. What makes a 100 day/100 km hit more interesting than a 2000 day/10 km?

Same with internationality, see examples claudio provided.

I'm open for all suggestions. This is really one of the long-term items on the todo list with no good solution.
I believe we have to change our thinking. In the moment we are searching for a model we can sort out non interesting hits. For me, thats impossible. We should do it the other way round. All hits (except that ones, which are now moderated automatically) are hits, normal hits (and stay visible as they are now). And than we schould have (very) interesting hits and everybody, who means, that his hit belongs to this categorie, can sent a wish to the support team or post in the forum, to upgrade the hit. I dont think, that would be so much work, as it seems in the moment. We need only a ranking and filter for this "better" ones.
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Re: Suggestion: short/long hits

Post by claudio vda » Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:25 pm

Math Murderer wrote: Jes and I have been brainstorming in the Test-Forum for a formula
And you have a brainstorming in the test forum? 8O
Well, I don't want to discuss about there are better places for doing a discussion :lol: I will give my contribution
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Re: Suggestion: short/long hits

Post by claudio vda » Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:50 pm

nossi wrote: we are searching for a model we can sort out non interesting hits
Not at all, it was not my idea: I never wrote that and if you understood that I am sorry. For me all real hits are interesting, but I think that some hits are more interesting than others: at the moment the interest of a hit is based if it is national or international, I think that also distance (and maybe days) have to be considered. It is for this that in my examples there are Vatican-Rome hit, international but 1 km , and Kiel - Muenchen hit, national but a little bit longer :roll:

By the way, this discussion about hits remember me the discussion about acids and bases: an "acid-and-stop" doesn't exist, it exists something that is "more acid than". For example nitric acid is more acid than water, but if you put it in sulphuric acid... it is a base.
And for the hits it is the same thing, a Innsbruck-Wien hit is more interesting than a Wien-Wien hit, but a Innsbruck-Sidney (if real) is more interesting than the first one :wink: and what about an hit 10 km, but 2500 days?
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Re: Suggestion: short/long hits

Post by nossi » Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:22 pm

claudio vda wrote:
nossi wrote: we are searching for a model we can sort out non interesting hits
Not at all, it was not my idea: I never wrote that and if you understood that I am sorry. For me all real hits are interesting, but I think that some hits are more interesting than others: at the moment the interest of a hit is based if it is national or international, I think that also distance (and maybe days) have to be considered. It is for this that in my examples there are Vatican-Rome hit, international but 1 km , and Kiel - Muenchen hit, national but a little bit longer :roll:

By the way, this discussion about hits remember me the discussion about acids and bases: an "acid-and-stop" doesn't exist, it exists something that is "more acid than". For example nitric acid is more acid than water, but if you put it in sulphuric acid... it is a base.
And for the hits it is the same thing, a Innsbruck-Wien hit is more interesting than a Wien-Wien hit, but a Innsbruck-Sidney (if real) is more interesting than the first one :wink: and what about an hit 10 km, but 2500 days?
Therefore we should not punish any real hit, which is not against the rules. To moderate is a form of punishment, because this hits are unvisible for all other users and the came in the same categorie as incorrect hits. Instead of that, we should reward more interesting hits. How this could be, I made a sugestion in my last post.
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