The next eurozone members

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Jes
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Re: The next eurozone members

Postby Jes » Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:11 pm

Akai wrote:Andorra in 2012

Do you think so?

I have sent several e-mails to the andorra mint, but they never confirmed that... :?
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Re: The next eurozone members

Postby ART » Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:57 pm

groentje wrote:Within one country, contrasts may by as big as within the Eurozone entirely. Still, they manage with one currency. Because of solidarity, and because there's a government that can take control. That is what lacks in the Eurozone, we're all in one EMU, but we have shit to say in the other countries, and vice versa.


Also in EU a similar mechanism with transfers of funds exists, this isn't the problem. The difference is that at European level the system isn't managed by a single government but by an agreement of 27 governments, and this make all more difficult.
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Re: The next eurozone members

Postby Akai » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:29 pm

Jes wrote:
Akai wrote:Andorra in 2012

Do you think so?

I have sent several e-mails to the andorra mint, but they never confirmed that... :?


if not this year will be the next or near

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Re: The next eurozone members

Postby melitikus » Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:34 pm

it looks that Andorra will start to issue its own euro coins as from 2013
found this news here http://myeurohobby.eu/

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Re: The next eurozone members

Postby googlejaps » Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:02 pm

Craft wrote:
De-Ker wrote:Within one union we are paying our own debts within the same currency area...which in essence means, nothing happens, since every euro is worth the same.

I borrowed euros from you to buy myself a new apartment. Now I cannot pay you back, since I recently got unemployed. But hey, it doesn't matter: since we both use euros, there is no point in paying you back, in essence nothing would happen if I paid! :roll:

(I'll send you my IBAN and BIC, we'll just need to agree on the amount that you'll pay me :wink:)


This is actually a nice metaphor. It's just a little more complicated. It's not just a question of 2 people, but a group of friends. One poor friend has borrowed some money from a few of these friends. The poor friend has made a few mistakes and did not spend the money in a correct way. Some friends that lent money to him are not that rich either. So if the first friend will be broke and cannot pay the money back, some others probably will be broke to because of that. The rich friends will not be broke, but they lose the money they planned on getting back eventually. Now the first friend gets in trouble: he loses his job. Then it becomes clear that he cannot pay back the money he owes his

At this moment the friends have two possible solutions:
  1. Don't do anything, lose your money you lend to this first friend and stop being friends with him. Then you can wait and have a look which of your other friends will go broke too, because of the loan the first friend didn't pay back.
  2. Help your friend even more, despite of all the money he owes them already. He could benefit from having some kind of additional education so he can have a better job than the one he lost. The friends should lend him more money to pay for this education and his bills. Also, because the friends desperately want their money back, and have learned from the past, they want to make an agreement with him to monitor his expenses. Only if the broke friend agrees to go to school again, and have his friends decide whether he can make certain purchases, he will get the loan from his friends he needs to pay his bills and pay his school.

In solution 1, everyone loses and not only money but also the friendship. In solution 2, if everyone does what they are supposed to do, after a few years everyone is better of than they are now.

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Re: The next eurozone members

Postby tabbs » Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:01 pm

melitikus wrote:it looks that Andorra will start to issue its own euro coins as from 2013

... and now, a few months later, it seems they have come to terms: Last week the Andorran government made the monetary agreement with the European Union. It still needs to be ratified, but I don't think that will be a major issue. Here are two articles about the agreement, the first one in Spanish/Castilian, the second one is in Catalan.

http://www.lavanguardia.com/economia/20 ... -2013.html
http://www.diariandorra.ad/index.php?op ... Itemid=380

According to the second article, Andorra can have 2.4 million coins minted. 80 percent of the pieces will be for circulation while the rest would be for the collectors market. Does not sound bad. Except that nobody knows what happens to the euro between now and 2013 ... :roll:

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Re: The next eurozone members

Postby Elmo » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:44 am

googlejaps wrote:This is actually a nice metaphor. It's just a little more complicated. It's not just a question of 2 people, but a group of friends. One poor friend has borrowed some money from a few of these friends. The poor friend has made a few mistakes and did not spend the money in a correct way. Some friends that lent money to him are not that rich either. So if the first friend will be broke and cannot pay the money back, some others probably will be broke to because of that. The rich friends will not be broke, but they lose the money they planned on getting back eventually. Now the first friend gets in trouble: he loses his job. Then it becomes clear that he cannot pay back the money he owes his friends

The lenders should have realized that they run a risk of their friend defaulting on his debt. When the lenders lose their money they are taught to be much more careful before doing this. Of course, there should be repercussions for the borrower who just defaulted on his debt (i.e. give up his assets to his friends), that should teach him to be more responsible the next time around.

Besides that: if the borrower has a certain talent, he shouldn't have much trouble with finding a new job, and he should be able to pay his debt after all (but this is unlikely: probably he is poor, because he is a lazy, mediocre, untalented twit :wink:).

googlejaps wrote:At this moment the friends have two possible solutions:
  1. Don't do anything, lose your money you lend to this first friend and stop being friends with him. Then you can wait and have a look which of your other friends will go broke too, because of the loan the first friend didn't pay back.
  2. Help your friend even more, despite of all the money he owes them already. He could benefit from having some kind of additional education so he can have a better job than the one he lost. The friends should lend him more money to pay for this education and his bills. Also, because the friends desperately want their money back, and have learned from the past, they want to make an agreement with him to monitor his expenses. Only if the broke friend agrees to go to school again, and have his friends decide whether he can make certain purchases, he will get the loan from his friends he needs to pay his bills and pay his school.

In solution 1, everyone loses and not only money but also the friendship. In solution 2, if everyone does what they are supposed to do, after a few years everyone is better of than they are now.

In solution 1, the borrower loses everything, and the lenders end up with his assets (house, car, company, etc....), but that should make him think twice of simply taking on a debt. The lenders may end up with a loss, but that should teach them to be more careful with lending money. There is a Dutch saying for that: He who burns his butt, must sit on the blisters (he who makes a mistake must carry the consequences of it).

In solution 2, everyone is better if and only if everyone does what they are supposed to do. But is that probable? I don't think so. By lending even more money to the faulty borrower, the borrower will sooner or later realize that he never has to repay his debt. This rewards the borrower of never paying his debt. Even worse, the borrower will be able to blackmail his lenders: "If you don't lend (*cough* give! *cough*) me even more money, I'll blow up this scheme, an you will be poor as well!". The borrower eventually becomes a financial suicide terrorist: "If you don't do as I say, I'll blow up myself and will take you with me with me!". In the end, all friends will be flat broke.
Of all the words of mice and men, the saddest are 'It might have been.' - Kurt Vonnegut

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Re: The next eurozone members

Postby googlejaps » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:40 am

Elmo, thanks for your vision on my metaphor. Clearly our different views of the same methaphor are comparable with the discussion that the european politicians are in right now.

Just one little remark. In your vision on the methaphor the friends take all posessions of the broke friend. In real life this is the way to go. But when we leave the metaphor and go back to Greece. I don't think all assets of Greece can be transferred to other countries. Some assets like companies and infrastructure could be transferred to other countries. But in the end the Greeks will and should own and govern Greece.

Then to make it even more complicated: If you would approach this situation like a straightforward financial issue, you should let the country go bankrupt, try to get back as much as possible by selling all assets. But the question is if you can punish 10 million people for the 'misbehaviour' of their representatives during the last decades. Then the human aspect of the problem enters the discussion.

I seriously don't know what the best decision is in this case. This probably will only be clear when we look back on the situation in 20 years. I'll just leave it to the experts and suggest we take the discussion back on topic ;)

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Re: The next eurozone members

Postby mikoyan » Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:48 pm


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Re: The next eurozone members

Postby googlejaps » Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:12 am

mikoyan wrote:Issue date for the euro coins of Andorra: July 2013
:D :D :D

Source :
http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/euro/world/outside_euro_area/documents/2011-07-06_agreement_en.pdf

Cool!

Thanks for this source

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Re: The next eurozone members

Postby ART » Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:42 pm

Romanian prime minister Victor Ponta said that Romania work for join the monetary union in 2018.
"If you lose, you can't win" (Andrea)
"Let's go to see the monsters" (Andrea)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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Re: The next eurozone members

Postby tabbs » Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:13 pm

And the Czech Republic is likely to stay out forever - see here:
http://www.cnb.cz/en/public/media_servi ... ozona.html

The most important portion of a long and winding central bank statement: "(...) the present and planned future shape of the framework for the functioning of the euro area is thus moving further and further away from the situation that existed when the Czech Republic entered the EU and committed to adopt the euro (...)"

In other words: The euro area has changed in the past few years, so while we theoretically knew, when we joined the EU, that we would introduce the euro at some point in the future, we finally found a good reason for staying out. At least they do clearly say "do not expect anything from us", instead of the "umm, maybe in five or ten years" that you sometimes hear from other non-euro countries. ;)

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Re: The next eurozone members

Postby ART » Wed Dec 25, 2013 9:55 pm

To think that the Eurozone would remain frozen at what it was when the Czech Republic joined to EU is absurd...
Every project involves important benefit as well as risks, and the final decision is political. Latvia could do the same but had the courage to continue without crying. It is normal to expect that the confusion caused by the crisis steps, but the solution is not to keep looking out the window without affecting the evolution of the monetary union.
"If you lose, you can't win" (Andrea)
"Let's go to see the monsters" (Andrea)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
European soul, European pride.


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