A dutch "Nee" to the Constitution?

Discussion/News about Europe, EU, politics

Moderators: Phaseolus, Fons

Post Reply

"Bent u voor of tegen instemming door Nederland met het Verdrag tot vaststelling van een Grondwet voor Europa?"

Poll ended at Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:20 pm

Voor (pro)
7
20%
Tegen (against)
12
34%
I don't vote
0
No votes
I can't vote
16
46%
 
Total votes: 35

User avatar
HNL
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 1710
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2002 11:11 am
Location: The Netherlands

A dutch "Nee" to the Constitution?

Post by HNL »

Code: Select all

Last official Dutch poll:
					   23/4			14/5		 21/5	
					  +	  -	  +	  -	  +	  -
EU-Scepticus 	3%	74%	 1%	86%	 1%	94%
EU-Handbreak	26%	50%	21%	57%	14%	71%
EU-Supporter	52%	21%	60%	21%	63%	22%
EU-Adept		 71%	16%	80%	14%	81%	16%
================================================
Total-NL		 37%	41%	37%	45%	36%	53%

Just a week to go. Let's see how the EBT results are. If you're not able to vote because you're not Dutch please do not vote option 1-3. The question in this poll is the official question on 1 june 2005.

What do you think: do we need more referenda like this one in the future?
Last edited by HNL on Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Elmo
Euro-Master
Euro-Master
Posts: 4184
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 4:16 pm
Location: Leiden (Netherlands)

Post by Elmo »

I am against referendums, because many people simply don't care, and a
considerable amount of people don't know enough to give a good opinion.
Many people are going to vote against, because they are against the euro.
A while ago De Nederlandsche Bank told that the Dutch sold their guilder too
cheap, and that caused more anti-European feelings (as can be seen from
the table). Other people are going to vote against, because they don't want
Turkey to join the EU. Again other people are going to vote against because
they are against the government (Balkenende). There are even people who
are going to vote against because we didn't make it to the final of the Euro-
vision Song Festival! Oh my ******* God! These things don't have anything
to do with the Constitution! :evil:

But most people voting against the Constitution vote against because they
are afraid Holland ges swallowed by a European superstate, where the big
countries rule, and the smaller ones don't have anything to say at all, and
where our national legislation will be replaced by European legislation. That
is so not true! At the moment, about 12% of our legislation is European,
which means that 88% of our legislation is still national legislation! Sure,
European legislation will increase, I estimate up to 25%, but that means
we still determine 75% of our legislation. Besides, it is quite logical that the
bigger countries get more, simply because they have more people, and in
a democracy most votes count. And don't forget that when we give up
some national laws, the other EU countries also do!

I am against referendums, because most people are not wise enough to
know what is good for them, and because they let their opinions get
formed by populistic politicians who are spreading fear for everything
European! Initially I didn't want to vote, but since it appears the no-voters
are going to win I am forced to put this principle aside, and vote pro. I
hope this will be the last referendum ever, and I also hope most Dutch are
wise enough to vote in facour of the Constitution. :? :!:

Besides, Italy is going to mint a special €2 this year, commemorating the Constitution exists one
year. If the Constitution is rejected, this coin has no meaning at all!
:roll:
Of all the words of mice and men, the saddest are 'It might have been.' - Kurt Vonnegut
User avatar
micdab
Euro-Regular
Euro-Regular
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 7:26 pm
Location: Genève, Suisse
Contact:

Post by micdab »

Elmo wrote:I am against referendums, because many people simply don't care[...]
I have to agree. This is completly stupid. It looks like people in F and NL are going to reject the constitution while I'm almost certain that a huge majority of them are voting for the wrong reasons. Some are voting 'no' because they don't like Chirac, others because they don't like Turkey, others are pissed off about Eurovision (!) this is crazy!

In fact, what I think they should do is give the voters a short test on the constitution. Only those who pass it get to vote. The participation rate would probably be less than 5% then, but at least the votes would be well informed. This may sound absurd, but I'm serious! :)
my bill maps - i'm proud of them! :)
knospe
Euro-Regular
Euro-Regular
Posts: 269
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 9:06 am
Location: Erfurt
Contact:

Post by knospe »

Elmo wrote:...I am against referendums, because most people are not wise enough to know what is good for them ...
"Democracy is a method to assure you are not governed better than you deserve."
User avatar
giberski
Euro-Master
Euro-Master
Posts: 2896
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2004 2:38 pm
Location: Leiden, The Netherlands
Contact:

Post by giberski »

Right now I'm at school, so don't have much time to answer, but I just want you to see my opinion:

I vote against because:

We pay the most to the EU while we need some of the money too actually
It's stupid the VETO-right will be canceled.
I'm afraid to lose our identity

...to be continued
Main organiser of EBTM06: Amsterdam and national meetings in Zwolle and Leiden.
Have you been to Holland? Join the Bingo
User avatar
Dakkus
Euro-Master
Euro-Master
Posts: 4734
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2003 3:59 pm
Location: No Helsinkiem, Somijas / Iš Helsinkio, Suomijos
Contact:

Post by Dakkus »

giberski wrote:Right now I'm at school, so don't have much time to answer, but I just want you to see my opinion:

I vote against because:

We pay the most to the EU while we need some of the money too actually
It's stupid the VETO-right will be canceled.
I'm afraid to lose our identity

...to be continued
How do you suppose the EU is supposed to work there are 25 member states that each have a VETO right?
Ko saka āboliņš? Pēk pēk pēk!
knospe
Euro-Regular
Euro-Regular
Posts: 269
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 9:06 am
Location: Erfurt
Contact:

Post by knospe »

giberski wrote:We pay the most to the EU while we need some of the money too actually
That's just not true. Germany pays the most to the EU.
And EVERY country can use the money for other things. That's not specific to the Nederlands.
User avatar
Elmo
Euro-Master
Euro-Master
Posts: 4184
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 4:16 pm
Location: Leiden (Netherlands)

Post by Elmo »

giberski wrote:We pay the most to the EU while we need some of the money too actually
It's stupid the VETO-right will be canceled.
We gave up the veto right, but as compensation we are going to pay less.
And a veto right with 25 (later 27, and even 28 ) members will make the EU
ungovernable. So if you vote against you'll get an ungovernable EU and we'll
keep on paying most per inhabitant (@knospe: per inhabitant, it is not
Germany, but Holland that pays most. In absolute amount, Germany pays
most.). If you vote pro, these problems will disappear.
giberski wrote:I'm afraid to lose our identity
How? Why? We won't lose our language, our food, our culture, our mills, our
dikes, our wooden shoes, etc.
giberski wrote:...to be continued
I am waiting for part 2! :wink:
Of all the words of mice and men, the saddest are 'It might have been.' - Kurt Vonnegut
User avatar
groentje
Euro-Master
Euro-Master
Posts: 2890
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2003 6:47 pm
Location: Brussels Capital Region, Belgium

Post by groentje »

I can't vote, since I don't live in the Netherlands.
I probably would vote no, if the NL wouldn't be the only country to do so. I want more Europe, and I just can't see this constitution as a way to get it. On the contrary, I would like more power for the EP, but in exchange for more things they can discuss and 'jointly decide', the would give up some other points where they can discuss and decide by themselves. Plus I miss more control over the European Comission, they still can only send the entire EC away, and not just one commisioner...
User avatar
Olivier
Euro-Master
Euro-Master
Posts: 3358
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2002 9:58 pm
Location: Evian

Post by Olivier »

micdab wrote: Some are voting 'no' because they (...) are pissed off about Eurovision (!) this is crazy!
:lol: :lol:

What a reason!!
giberski wrote: I'm afraid to lose our identity
You'll still be dutch after the vote. Even if there is a Constitution!
Have you been different just because of the Maastricht treaty? :roll:

About who pays less or more... I don't mind if France pays more or less is the money is well spent. There are many things to do in the whole EU: politics for environment, transports, immigration, equality of rights, education, health...

I'm glad the EU becomes more democratic with this treaty...
Rufes
Euro-Master
Euro-Master
Posts: 2203
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 7:09 pm
Location: Uitgeest, Noord Holland

Post by Rufes »

I cant vote but if i was going to vote i said NO
Post Reply

Return to “Europe-Board”