Phaseolus wrote:@ Tiverius : so, in summary, you do not disagree with my previous statements : there was a UN-proposal ; and it was rejected for some reasons, obviously, but, it was rejected by the Greek part...
You know, there has been wars in other parts of Europe, and we learned to discuss and work together with time ; before one could speak about the so-called "great French-German Friendship" ; there has been 3 wars in 60 years.
So, now that you have seen mothers waiting for their sons, don't you believe that time has come to end a period of history and start a new one ? How long do you want the current situation to go on ? What is your proposal for a change ? Do you want a change ?
Only making a summary of the existing situation does not solve the issue... Even if your story may sound convincing.
One last thing : let me restate one little thing : Greece was in 1980, in a very bad economical situation and has benefit since then from a continuous flow of cash for paying for improving its infrastructure ; and my correction is the following : Greece is still in a very bad economical situation and, to the difference of Portugal, Spain and Ireland, that have made very nice evolutions, Greece is still lagging behind...
Maybe your fear is that once Turkey will be part of the UE, Greece will still be the weak link with this country ?
That is correct.I just mention why rejected.Isn't that important?
The change can come only if both sides are willing to change (like France and Germany you mention). We are ready and we have prove it. First of all,at the moment we don't put any obstacle in Turkey's way in EU. We are not answering to any of their hostile acts. We have asked them many times to solve any dispute in the Aegean Sea in the international court of Hague and they refuse to attend. Change comes through dialogue.We are willing, are they? As I have said before you are not inviting to your house someone that wants to kill you. You keep him out, solve the problem and if he decides that he doesn't want to kill you anymore you invite him for a tea (or coffee).
By the way, there would have been much more than 3 wars in less years if there was not a power race between two countries. If Turkey felt that they were stronger than us they would attack,we wouldn't if we were stronger. As Turkish prime minister Ozal said in the 80s "We will solve the problems with Greece in a few years when we will be 60.000.000" meaning the use of force. We are still waiting. They have the numbers, we have the quality.
The difference between you and me is that you want Turkey inside EU at any cost, I want Turkey inside EU only when it is 100% safe for all Greeks. First we solve problems (which are not caused by us) then we become brothers. That's how it happened between France and Germany,right?
We have accomplished many things with the money given from EU (to mention some,new highways connecting all big cities and ports of Greece, new railway which replace old one build in 19th century,expansion of Athens Metro and build of Thessaloniki Metro, highways inside the city of Athens,Rio-Antirio bridge,new airport in Athens, Olympic infrastructures and thousand smaller works) and we are really greatful for that. But, no my friend. Greece of 1980 is not the same with Greece of today. Many of the money given were mispend, stolen or given to wrong directions, but many things moved forward. Yes, we are not in the same potition with Spain and Ireland (I don't think that things in Portugal are any better than here, been there twice), but there are many differences between three countries (apart from bad use of money given from EU to our goverments which I admit). Till recently,we didn't have common borders with other EU states, which rise the price of our products, we don't have the same natural resources, and we don't spend the same money to buy weapons to protect our countries. Is Spain,Portugal or Ireland threatened by anyone? We have the biggest percentage of illegal immigrants in EU (around 10% of population) because we are at the "door" of EU (Spain and Italy have similar problem) and we don't have the same connections and accessibillity in the Latin America market as Spain and Portugal have. Anyway, during the Simitis goverments and two years after, Greece was helding the highest development rate among EU members (around 6%) which means that not all money spread to four winds.
I don't have any fear and it's more possible that Germany or France will have bigger problems if it happens. Probably Turkish will be smart enough not to come to "poor" Greece, but to wealthy countries of the North. But I remind you (again), that the road of Turkey to EU, pass through the referendum of the Greek voters. If they behave, they are in. If not,they are out.