just a simple question about time...

[Annie_in_exile]

Why does the time of the messages display in such a funny way? I mean the early hours of the day, for instance 12.50 am - when is that?

[Dakkus]

Why does the time of the messages display in such a funny way? I mean the early hours of the day, for instance 12.50 am - when is that?

You haven't configured your preferences. For me your message was sent at this time: "Wed Aug 06, 2003 15:24"
The time format can be set this way:

Click "Profile" button in the upmost part of this forum.
A new page opens to the window. Go to the bottom of it.
There you can find a box called "Date format:"
For me it's "D M d, Y H:i".
If you want to know, what each letter means, see http://www.php.net/date

Remember that the case of letter matters. So m is different thing than M.

[Annie_in_exile]

Yes, thanks, but do you have a theory when it is 12.50 am?

[BogPoet]

Yes, thanks, but do you have a theory when it is 12.50 am?

Just ten minutes before 1pm...?

[Guest]

Wouldn't that be 12.50 pm?

[Gauss]

12:50am means 50 minutes after midnight. This is the standard time format used in the USA, and due to their great influence adopted in some software.
AM means "ante meridiem" (latin for "before noon"). Obviously from 12:50 it is a shorter time until next noon that back to the previous noon.

[John S]

Well, since this is an European site, why are the defaults set to consfusing American standards? There is just no reason to blindly accept American methods. The Americans are going to continue to push their ways on everyone else and will get away with it as long as no one complains or demands otherwise.

The Americans will justify their actions by the acceptance of their practices by the world. So, instead of just using the flimsy excuse of "American dominance", start being a force of resistance and demand American compliance to International Standards. Stop being wimps!

The people who set up this site should be the ones to set the defaults. They should all be set to the ISO-8601 standard.

See: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/iso-time.html

In reality, the so-called 12:50 am is 00:50:00 h. And that is how it should be shown. Please change the time/date defaults to reflect the standards everyone else uses and understands.

[Donald]

This 12:50 a.m. is what I learned in school. They told me that it is good to be firm with these specialties of the language. So many people here in Germany believe that they must write times in this way. Maybe it is similar in other European countries.

Here in Europe it is quite an achievement that more and more of us can communicate in a common language which is English. This is IMHO why we take more care to learn the language than to set new standards. I prefer American English because the USA are the biggest (in a econonical sense) English speaking community. If India was economically more advanced I would try to use Indian English. I don't care so much for British English because I don't care very much about the United Kingdom. This can change one day when the UK reveals more interest in European integration.

We Europeans still keep persistently our metric system, which has proven to be successful on the world-wide market. I think that there is some competion between the systems for metrics, languages or times. I expect that the USA must sooner or later accept the metric system, which will be quite a change for them. Time formats will hopefully change to a more computer oriented way like "2003-08-10, 19:48" and UT (universal time) will stay identical with GMT as it is today.

I am optimistic that the Americans will learn that there is no advantage for them in being perceived as dominant. IMHO the best way to protect the American way of life will include some compromises.

[Annie_in_exile]

Oops, I did it again... started a fight.

There's one comment I totally, completely understand and agree with:

In reality, the so-called 12:50 am is 00:50:00 h. And that is how it should be shown.

Peace and Love,
once again

[John S]

I am optimistic that the Americans will learn that there is no advantage for them in being perceived as dominant. IMHO the best way to protect the American way of life will include some compromises.

Why should the US compromise on any issue, be it using standard date/time formats or measurements or anything else, if you and those like you, are so willing so accept US practices as de facto?

It is only when the majority of the world refuses to accept American standards that the US will change. And if the US still refuses to change, they you refuse to buy their products based on their standards and start to manufacture the same type of product based on what is standard in the world.

Your actions speak louder then words. Don't accept something if something else is better. Be a force behind change.

[Donald]

Why should the US compromise on any issue, be it using standard date/time formats or measurements or anything else, if you and those like you, are so willing so accept US practices as de facto?
...
Your actions speak louder then words. Don't accept something if something else is better. Be a force behind change.

Well, I only accept my Coca Cola in liter bottles . Today I bought 24 330 ml cans of Dr Peppers. It works, they can comprehend the metric system!
Our American friends also must accept that we Europeans set different standards on genetically altered food. This is also interesting on the world market. What will the Chinese buy? It is also amazing to me that Americans are so willing to be the guinea pigs of their genetic food industry. To me this seems to be a facet of American patriotism.

Another thing is that I don't like to argue agressively against some American dominant habits. I don't want to support extremists who prefer a real aggressive conduct with America, this can easily motivate terrorists, which is not my intention. In fact, I see more sense for the time being to be cooperative with America (which does not exclude some criticism in solidarity).
I'll be in New England in October and have a look at what has happened in the States since I have been there in 1994.

[John S]

Oops, I did it again... started a fight.

Not, really! People like you should open up and complain when you are confronted with practices that are confusing to the majority.

Don't ever believe that because the US does something, it means all Americans are comfortable with it, or completely understand it. The fact is, most Americans are afraid to speak out about confusing and illogical methods. Most think there is no other way, so they just fumble along.

The am/pm time method is the most confusing, and a day does not go by that somebody is not screwed up by it. Here are acouple of exampls where the am/pm system is a pain in the ass:

1.) VCR programming. I and everyone I spoke to has made this mistake quite often. That is we programmed to record at the wrong time, just by getting the am/pm switched. No matter how much you try to get it right, once and awhile we all get it backwards.

Some years ago, the stores were selling devices you could aim at your set, program in a code found in the TV guide and the machine would automatically program your VCR. What an expensive device we have to have just to compensate for the am/pm crap.

2.) Travel. I have heard many stories from people who work airline counters concerning the number of times people showed up for their flight either 12 h early or 12 h late. Can you imagine what an inconvenience that is? It all boils down to the am/pm mess.

3.) Setting a digital clock and/or alarm clock. I have heard of a few incidents (myself included), where either the clock had to be reset or the alarm function set. It either case, there are times where either or both were set 12 h off and the alarm failed to ring at the desired time. Talking about running around like a chicken with its head cut off to make up for the lost time.

In each of these cases, the 24 h time setting would have eliminated all errors. But, for some reason, Americans prefer to make the mistakes then to adopt a more sensible time reckoning to make life easier. And to make matters, worse, since misery loves company, we want the rest of the wrold to suffer with us.