Ranking : the concept of trees

[bhoeyb]

We have a sort of competition. Countries vs Countries. Users vs Users. That's good enough for me. If you start with getting higher levels, you will get higher fake hits/notes entered, I'm sure of it.

I totally agree with you.

Yes, totaly right More fakers = more work to delete them = less time to enter notes
Maybe a new way to cheat: cracking the code for making seral numbers and entering lots of notes to get high into the top users list ... a new problem for the futur How to deal with that

[emmem]

Maybe there is another kind of ranking users. Depending of how much their data can be trusted.

A Woombelist : Having an amount of hits out of proportion
A Serialist : Having a certain percentage (for instance more than 50% of the bills) with more or less consecutive serials.
A Heatofeuroper : someone who enters bills in several counties and where it’s obvious he couldn’t have visited them all
An Errorist : a user who has exceeded a certain percentage of errors between serial and printer codes.

[bhoeyb]

Maybe there is another kind of ranking users. Depending of how much their data can be trusted.

A Woombelist : Having an amount of hits out of proportion
A Serialist : Having a certain percentage (for instance more than 50% of the bills) with more or less consecutive serials.
A Heatofeuroper : someone who enters bills in several counties and where it’s obvious he couldn’t have visited them all
An Errorist : a user who has exceeded a certain percentage of errors between serial and printer codes.

Nice idea and easy to create

[Skylimit]

The point here is that it is so easy to cheat ... On the other hand, people that have been around for a while seem to know exactly who is entering fishy numbers, and what techniques they use ...

But you are never really sure...
"Heat of Europe" is maybe cheating, but some people do travel a lot ... But if he were in a network of dozens of people who all seem to travel all over Europe, you would know for sure that this is a network that is cheating ...

Woombelists : If someone empties a cash machine as EBT-er and carries it to a bank where there is another EBT-er, then you have a Woombelist that is not faking... If you were to have both people in the same team or network, you could say they are cheating...or at least automatically moderate their hits

A serialist, can be spotted by the webmaster, even if he is solo... A network of serialists should be more easy to track ...

An errorist, can be a guy over 70 years old... A network of errorists is a "home of grumpy old men" ... Homes can be banned (get help from your kids)

The point here : it seems to me that faking a network is very hard to do... While anybody can cheat, on an individual basis, very easily ...

Maybe a limit of 50 to 100 notes / week is not such a bad idea. After all, if you only enter notes that were in your wallet once, I don't see how you can come to 2500 notes in 15 days ... These guys have access to an awful lot of cash, and work in a bank or deal with cash machines OR they have a network, sending them serial numbers over mail ... here we go, a network ...

Competition : I have the impression that a lot of EBT-ers are not interested in competing, and are not posting more than 50 to 100 notes per week, but only these that made it to their wallet ... Fine, maybe I have the same profile ... but more (real) notes = more fun for us too, and there are always other people who do want to make it to the stats ...

Why not use this enthousiasm, and provide them the tools to grow this site to a level where cheaters will be so largely outnumbered, that it no longer pays off, and where they can no longer beat the networks of real users ...

Like most of you who replied, I will never post 2500 notes in 15 days, and probably don't know the right techniques to be best referer ... But I do believe in networks and teams (in which I may or may not participate)

Do not underestimate the power of a tree ... !

Kindest Newbie regards

[Skylimit]

Maybe there is another kind of ranking users. Depending of how much their data can be trusted.

A Woombelist : Having an amount of hits out of proportion
A Serialist : Having a certain percentage (for instance more than 50% of the bills) with more or less consecutive serials.
A Heatofeuroper : someone who enters bills in several counties and where it’s obvious he couldn’t have visited them all
An Errorist : a user who has exceeded a certain percentage of errors between serial and printer codes.

I like your idea, which is probably meant as a joke, but original naming ...

You can subdivide the ranks from rookie to catastrofist ...
Woombelist-rookie (1 fake hit)
Woombelist-amateur (5 fake hits)
Woombelist-catastrofist (as of 25 fake hits)

Serialist-junior (2 consecutive numbers)
Serialist-cheater (10 consecutive numbers)
Serialst-flourist (as of 25 consecutive numbers)

HeatforEuroper-tourist (1 suspicious trip to Kuala Lumpur during rainy season)
HeatforEuroper-tripper (5 suspicious trips)
HeatforEuroper-jetlagger (as of 25 suspicious trips)

Errorist-quertzu-keyboarder (1 error)
Errorist-grandpa (5 errors)
Errorist-Terrorist (as of 25 errors)

Of course these guys needs to be spotted, and the spotters can also be ranked ...
From Serial-Happyspotter to Serial-Killer
From Errorist-corrector to Errorist-Terminator
From Woombelist-moderator to Woombelist-deactivator

Or maybe I just get a bit carried away here ...
Maybe we can organize a poll ... Do you think Skylimit needs medical help ? Definitely, Later, not at all

[emmem]

I like your idea, which is probably meant as a joke, but original naming ...

In fact I still don’t know if I put them there as a joke or as words that are useful in some way. I guess a little bit of both.

Using ‘new’ words for naming some user behaviour is something we will do anyway. So why not use funny words for it. After all Eurobilltracker is meant to be fun.

Now to get a bit more serious, when you give the example Serialist-junior 2 consecutive number I have to disagree. I think looking at the percentage of serial groups a user entered is more relevant. I remember having entered consecutive numbers on two occasions (but there might be more). They came both from an ATM.

But if you have more than 100 bills and of those bills more than 20% are consecutive ones, then I think the term Serialist-junior could be used.

When it comes to making errors a similar applies. You have to take a percentage. And of course it could be that as a newbee a user makes more errors. So when those errors are in the first bills entered they should have a smaller impact.

[Skylimit]

I think looking at the percentage of serial groups a user entered is more relevant. I remember having entered consecutive numbers on two occasions (but there might be more). They came both from an ATM.

There we go ... Thomas (Guest) made a remark yesterday, that people at banks get whole loads of bills with consecutive numbers ... What if the guy who ever put them in your ATM was an EBT-er ? That would make him a serialist, and you would be a Woombelist (producing more than one hit a time + with consecutive numbers = you must have been cheating big time !!!) If you were to have stolen the bills from the bank you would just have been a serialist, which is not so bad...

[Skylimit]

Now to get a bit more serious, when you give the example Serialist-junior 2 consecutive number I have to disagree.

If we have a means to report abuse, this rule could be changed to,
"suspected for serialism by two users = serialist-junior"

[emmem]

Now to get a bit more serious, when you give the example Serialist-junior 2 consecutive number I have to disagree.

If we have a means to report abuse, this rule could be changed to,
"suspected for serialism by two users = serialist-junior"

Now that we are aware of the fact that some users could come into contact with consecutive serials on a daily bases once of a sudden there seem to be two kind of serialists. The good ones, who really come into contact with large series, and the bad ones who just have one note and start adding (or subtracting).

The bad serialists can be detected in two ways. First there is the fact that every serie stops somewhere. So one day or another we will detect this. Secondly there is the entering pattern.

When you work at a bank and enter bills every evening after work, the since banks are closed on Sunday (they are here in Belgium) then it gets more suspicious if series are entered on a Sunday.

[airis]

The bad serialists can be detected in two ways. First there is the fact that every serie stops somewhere. So one day or another we will detect this. Secondly there is the entering pattern.

When you work at a bank and enter bills every evening after work, the since banks are closed on Sunday (they are here in Belgium) then it gets more suspicious if series are entered on a Sunday.

Isn´t it rather odd to enter always exactly 20 bank notes from one serie? I think maybe the first one was real and the rest (19) were fake.

And how likely it is to get series of foreign euro bank notes? (I once got two French 20 Euro bank notes from a serie.)

[emmem]

Isn´t it rather odd to enter always exactly 20 bank notes from one serie? I think maybe the first one was real and the rest (19) were fake.

Yes this is very odd. Since 20 is exactly the number of bills that can be entered into the advanced form.

[Craft]

may and will be sabotaged by some people who think it is funny and enjoyable to spoil the idea. It's strange how some are willing and able to spend a LOT of time on destroying others' hobby. I'd could imagine someone would do this for money

[Skylimit]

may and will be sabotaged by some people who think it is funny and enjoyable to spoil the idea. It's strange how some are willing and able to spend a LOT of time on destroying others' hobby. I'd could imagine someone would do this for money

Money is the thing that makes the world go round. People spending all of their time in sabotaging this site, have a strong urge to become immortal, by being number one in one of the competitions (I am personally very disappointed that this means no further competions in other forms that coexist with the existing ones, will be encouraged ... on the other hand, if we would have 10 or 20 kinds of competing, not even an organized network could be number one in all of them .. And if it is the case that most seniors don't want competition because of this, why are the results on the homepage ... [don't remove them, it will kill us]

Organized hacking of this site, will more likely come from "competing" sites. We are not the only Euro-tracking site... But we have reached the critical mass, from which we can score internationally (and intercontinental)... competing sites have the tools to hack us - because after all they have a database too, they can use against us (If this sentence is giving the webmaster shivers -> delete it ... but think about it

[Craft]

Maybe I'm the only one here who is opposed to the whole idea of making this all so complex. But I like the Keep it simple -principle.

[HNL]

Maybe I'm the only one here who is opposed to the whole idea of making this all so complex. But I like the Keep it simple -principle.

Nop, you're not. Maybe somebody is able to start a poll about it.