Incorrect dots and inaccuracies among city profiles

[ravestorm]

This town does not exist. It is the name of a bridge between the 2 parts of Flevoland, Netherlands.

Postalcode is (often) that of the town of Nagele.

The "city" and its visitors: http://nl.eurobilltracker.eu/profile/?c ... city=46545" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The latest note: http://nl.eurobilltracker.eu/notes/?id=66513894" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Which location do you suggest to subsume it in?

[vermeer]

Nagele

http://nl.eurobilltracker.eu/profile/?c ... city=64498" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Phaseolus]

I am missing some dots :

Portugal
Vila Verde da Raia (5400-805) : 41°47'25.17"N 7°25'23.23"O
Modivas (4485-592) : 41°17'40.65"N 8°41'26.86"O
São João (3880-101) : 40°51'57.53"N 8°36'29.21"O
Branca (3850-523) : 40°44'36.86"N 8°29'26.10"O
São Julião (4930-469) : 41°56'47.34"N 8°39'36.11"O
Refóios do Lima (4990-690) : 41°47'41.68"N 8°33'19.44"O
Cabreiros (4705-589) : 41°32'22.10"N 8°29'20.53"O
Fonte Boa (4740-422) : 41°29'50.40"N 8°41'18.09"O
Figueiredo (4805-184) : 41°28'04.02"N 8°22'51.48"O

Spain
O Castro de Dozόn (36518) : 42°34'15.22"N 8°02'58.99"O

Finding back postal codes in Portugal and finding out what is the real name of the city or parish where I got the bill was very difficult...

The worst up to now for my tracking...

Thank you to the volunteers for putting a little dot to my missing cities !

[CarlosManta]

Portugal
Vila Verde da Raia (5400-805) : 41°47'25.17"N 7°25'23.23"O
Modivas (4485-592) : 41°17'40.65"N 8°41'26.86"O
São João (3880-101) : 40°51'57.53"N 8°36'29.21"O
Branca (3850-523) : 40°44'36.86"N 8°29'26.10"O
São Julião (4930-469) : 41°56'47.34"N 8°39'36.11"O
Refóios do Lima (4990-690) : 41°47'41.68"N 8°33'19.44"O
Cabreiros (4705-589) : 41°32'22.10"N 8°29'20.53"O
Fonte Boa (4740-422) : 41°29'50.40"N 8°41'18.09"O
Figueiredo (4805-184) : 41°28'04.02"N 8°22'51.48"O

Finding back postal codes in Portugal and finding out what is the real name of the city or parish where I got the bill was very difficult...

Difficult and... wrong.

In Portugal for EBT Castanhola and lmviterbo have advised to use "Localidade" and not "city or parish". One parish might have several localidades, and one localidade might have several parishes. Confused? Yes, it takes a bit to understand it. The portuguese post (CTT) often uses "city or parish" and I guess that is the source of your errors.
For example:
"Mindelo" is a parish, which contains several "Localidades"
"Refóios do Lima" is a parish, which contains more than ten "Localidades"
"Fonte Boa" is a parish, with several "Localidades".

Sometimes there is a "Localidade" inside the parish with the same name. In none of the cases above that is the case, hence none of the parish names "exists" ebt-wise and that is probably why the dots do not show up.

You also have indicated the 7 digit postal-code. This is often individualizing single streets. Even a small village can have more than one 7 digit code in different streets. Are you sure about the codes?

A lot of the entries you showed suggest that you got the bills from highway toll booths. Is this the case?
If it is true, it might simplify the problem. Toll booths have different 7digit postal codes from the villages around them, in many cases their own code. If you give us the highway number and exit number it could be easier to give you the correct names to register the bills in.

Otherwise, please make sure the coordinates are correct, and we can halp to find out the correct "Localidade" name.

[Phaseolus]

Portugal
Vila Verde da Raia (5400-805) : 41°47'25.17"N 7°25'23.23"O
Modivas (4485-592) : 41°17'40.65"N 8°41'26.86"O
São João (3880-101) : 40°51'57.53"N 8°36'29.21"O
Branca (3850-523) : 40°44'36.86"N 8°29'26.10"O
São Julião (4930-469) : 41°56'47.34"N 8°39'36.11"O
Refóios do Lima (4990-690) : 41°47'41.68"N 8°33'19.44"O
Cabreiros (4705-589) : 41°32'22.10"N 8°29'20.53"O
Fonte Boa (4740-422) : 41°29'50.40"N 8°41'18.09"O
Figueiredo (4805-184) : 41°28'04.02"N 8°22'51.48"O

Finding back postal codes in Portugal and finding out what is the real name of the city or parish where I got the bill was very difficult...

Difficult and... wrong.

In Portugal for EBT Castanhola and lmviterbo have advised to use "Localidade" and not "city or parish". One parish might have several localidades, and one localidade might have several parishes. Confused? Yes, it takes a bit to understand it. The portuguese post (CTT) often uses "city or parish" and I guess that is the source of your errors.
For example:
"Mindelo" is a parish, which contains several "Localidades"
"Refóios do Lima" is a parish, which contains more than ten "Localidades"
"Fonte Boa" is a parish, with several "Localidades".

Sometimes there is a "Localidade" inside the parish with the same name. In none of the cases above that is the case, hence none of the parish names "exists" ebt-wise and that is probably why the dots do not show up.

You also have indicated the 7 digit postal-code. This is often individualizing single streets. Even a small village can have more than one 7 digit code in different streets. Are you sure about the codes?

A lot of the entries you showed suggest that you got the bills from highway toll booths. Is this the case?
If it is true, it might simplify the problem. Toll booths have different 7digit postal codes from the villages around them, in many cases their own code. If you give us the highway number and exit number it could be easier to give you the correct names to register the bills in.

Otherwise, please make sure the coordinates are correct, and we can halp to find out the correct "Localidade" name.

I did spend hours finding out about the portuguese cities ; it took me a couple of hours to find out about the precise geographical coordinates. Would it be so difficult to put it into the database ? Thank you !

[CarlosManta]

I did spend hours finding out about the portuguese cities ; it took me a couple of hours to find out about the precise geographical coordinates. Would it be so difficult to put it into the database ? Thank you !

Because they are wrong, the city names you indicated do not exist.
(they are the names of areas and not of places)
If you confirm that the GPS coordinates are correct, then it is possible to find out the correct names.

[Castanhola]

I am missing some dots

Hi Phaseolus. The dots are missing because they have no coordinates. Not yet. I'm taking three days of holidays (without my kids). During the weekend or during next week I will take care of your missing dots. Be patient for some more days. As I told you in Coimbra, if you have some problem finding portuguese postal codes, dots, cities, etc, just send me a PM.

[lmviterbo]

I did spend hours finding out about the portuguese cities ; it took me a couple of hours to find out about the precise geographical coordinates. Would it be so difficult to put it into the database ? Thank you !

Please try to refrain from being rude to whom is trying to help and takes also hours in trying to explain.

It IS difficult to put correct Portuguese towns and postal codes into the database, as you yourself found out by experience. I am sorry that the Portuguese system is so difficult but you can't blame it on us; instead you should blame the Post and several official organs that don't share a common database.

I will put those into the database, assuming the geocoords are the exact points where you got the notes. CarlosManta (who already start the difficult task) and Castanhola will help me finding the correct information.

[ravestorm]

Would it be so difficult to put it into the database ?

Yes, if you're trying to keep locations db as clean as possible.
So have more patiance and don't blame our portuguese experts.
thank you

[Phaseolus]

Please try to refrain from being rude to whom is trying to help and takes also hours in trying to explain.

I am not rude, please quote where I appear to have been using wrong words. I am a bit "tired" as I have spent so much time doing this and trying to understand why I could not find a city on correos.pt, whilst I could see it on wiki or on google maps...

I am doing some dothunting since 5 years now and I have collected more than 500 dots in Europe... If it is not functionning with me they are two options :
1. I am too much stupid to understand the system and maybe this is how you could read the replies made to my inquiry in this topic?
2. The current system on EBT for geolocation applied in Portugal could maybe be reconsidered. Indeed, I wonder how Portuguese newbies react when they need to register a note on EBT ?

I take an example : I stayed in Esposende, and I found out that the Miniprecios was located on Marinhas. I wanted to enter "Marinhas" for these bills, but I could only find reference to "xxxx-xxx Esposende". How should I register the bill ? Marinhas or Esposende ?

I decide to use "Esposende", as there was no big deal with the dot. But for some of the dots that I am still missing, I really needed to go into more detail, as otherwise the dot would be located in another dot then the one really targeted...

[Castanhola]

I take an example : I stayed in Esposende, and I found out that the Miniprecios was located on Marinhas. I wanted to enter "Marinhas" for these bills, but I could only find reference to "xxxx-xxx Esposende". How should I register the bill ? Marinhas or Esposende ?

I decide to use "Esposende", as there was no big deal with the dot. But for some of the dots that I am still missing, I really needed to go into more detail, as otherwise the dot would be located in another dot then the one really targeted...

In this case there are no problem, because Esposende and Marinhas are on the same dot. But in other cases, if you choose a city near the dot limits, you can have a problem, if you do not use the correct postal code or the correct city name.

[CarlosManta]

Indeed, I wonder how Portuguese newbies react when they need to register a note on EBT ?

I take an example : I stayed in Esposende, and I found out that the Miniprecios was located on Marinhas. I wanted to enter "Marinhas" for these bills, but I could only find reference to "xxxx-xxx Esposende". How should I register the bill ? Marinhas or Esposende ?

First, I love my Spanish neighbours, in particular the ones from Galicia, but there is no "correos" ou "precios" in Portugal. In portuguese you should write "correios" and "preços".

About your question, the reaction is Shock!

Actually it sounds worse than it is. I will keep this as short as possible. lmviterbo and Castanhola, please don't read what I will write next.
The portuguese postal code has 7 digits, which allows it to have a precision of close to a postal code per street.
The postal code is broken in two parts, 4+3 digits xxxx-yyy
In a lot of cases, newbies register with the 4 digit xxxx code and the name of the city. In a big city this is enough.
It is possible to look up the 7 digit codes for shops or banks you usually go to. So most of the bills a regular user registers are easy to be accurate.

The real problem is really for dothunting, when you want the postal code of a highway booth, where the post is not delivered, and often does not have a 7 digit code. Sometimes only the 4 digit code is known, as there is no 7 digit code attributed.

You have to keep in mind the postal code was done to deliver post, not to geotag locations.

This is the reason why the name of the location after the 7 digit is not completely accurate, as in some cases if refers to the "name" of the closest post office, and not the name of the village. (actually it is the local authorities who should indicate the correct names for the post database, but in too many cases they don't supply the accurate information)
lmviterbo and Castanhola, you can continue reading now!
To sum up, the reason it is difficult is because we are trying to fix a screw using a hammer. I am sure that if EBT started today, the developers would have a map widget where you click on the location, like you do on Flickr or Picasa to place your holiday photos. Since we are using the postal code system for geo locations, we have to live with its limitations.

I have been on holidays driving through Germany, Switzerland, France and Italy. I found exactly the same problems determining the postal code and locations as in Portugal. When I use "Besnate, 21010" does it refer to the town or to the highway booth? The difference is that in Portugal since we are smaller, but have more digits, out postal codes are more accurate. And our experts lmviterbo and Castanhola make sure we always use the most accurately possible information.

By the way: The city (cidade) of Esposende contains three parishes, Esposende, Marinhas and Gandra. You should register with "Esposende"

[Bleker]

I also have a missing dot:
Saint Nicolas des Biefs (03250) : 690.9083333333333°N 56.75416666666667E

I am not sure about my conversion from hour system to decimal, so I give you the coordinate in the hour system :
46° 03′ 38″ N
3° 47′ 01″ E

Source for the position : Wikipedia

[Jes]

Wow! I see there is lot of work over here... and I come to add even more. Well it is just a new dot in Spain:

Name: Quijas
Post code: 39590
Coordinates: 43.350278°N, -4.132222°W

For instance: http://es.eurobilltracker.com/notes/?id=66859576" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Regards and thanks again

[claudio vda]

There is a village in Italy, near Aosta, called Saint Nicolas: the only problem is that the notes insered from 11010 Saint Nicolas, Italy are registred as Saint Nicolas, Belgium. May you separate the two towns? Thanks

http://it.eurobilltracker.eu/notes/?id=66918744" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;