EuroBillTracker

to you what is a "non UN country"? a city, a town, a province? Someone could say his province is a "country" and other could say his town is a "country".
If I go for example to Mérida I have been to Mérida, to Badajoz, to Extremadura, to Spain, to the EU: 5 "countries" and I haven´t move.
The UN recognized countries exists to know the countries in an objective point of view

A good guideline for what a country is, might be Wikipedia.

From the non UN countries I have visited:

* state with general international recognition but not UN membership, governed by the Holy See (a UN permanent observer), the Vatican City.
* de facto independent states, namely Transnjestia

A Non UN-Country may be

- A territory with more than 1000 years of common history?
or
- A territory populated by people that speaks a common Language ?
or
- A territory with governments, rules, acts and institutions?


For me, is clear than Catalonia is a Non UN-Country. Inside Spain (his main UN Recognized Country), of course.

We may argue about borders, which territories may be included or not, etc. But we have a common history.

Also is clear that if we counts countries, and we visit Barcelona, we only must to count 1 (Spain). But And this is really important for me, if some territories called Transnestjia are considered a Country, Catalonia must to be -at least- considered.

This is the main reason that I suggested to start a non UN Nation List of Countries

Inside (as part of) Spain from 1714 thanks to the lose of a war (in UK parliament is remembered as Catalan Question, not resolved).

With Spain from 14-15th century, it depends what is the topic used to define the union.

Leting aside the Catalan Question, that It seems to me that offended our friend eurojuanmi , we can introduce these non UN List. Also may be called "Historical Countries" , but I think that non-UN Country list may be better.

Can you imagine the richness of such a list?

Only countries that are not oficialy recognized. In Spain, we have so many:
Catalonia
Castilla
León
Navarra
Galicia
Asturias

I think that Madrid must not be included in this list, but people from Madrid must to propose...

In France, lots also of older countries...

La serenísima república of Venezzia, that leads the Mediterranean Sea with Catalonia...

You will say: we starts another topic?

regards,

WOLFINAS wrote: Only countries that are not oficialy recognized. In Spain, we have so many:
Catalonia
Castilla
León
Navarra
Galicia
Asturias

I think that Madrid must not be included in this list, but people from Madrid must to propose...

In France, lots also of older countries...

La serenísima república of Venezzia, that leads the Mediterranean Sea with Catalonia...

You will say: we starts another topic?

regards,

that is very difficult but if you want to do the topic, do it and I think you will have to put the "countries" of each country, because there will be confusion, but I disagree with you in something: if the non UN countries are the historical countries, I think (better: wikipedia says) the Iberic Cristian Kingdoms are :
Reino de Navarra
Reino de Aragón
Reino de Castilla
Reino de León
Reino de Asturias
Reino de Galicia
Reino de Portugal

And I have more doubts: I go to Merida again, I have been in Roma Civilization, in Al-Andalus in Castilla or in Spain?

Chronological Kingdoms of the Iberic Peninsula

WOLFINAS wrote:Yes, I Agree...


I have been in Madrid also (only airports and some restaurant), Also Valencia (Nice feast), Aragón (in a wedding and travelling across his nice mountains), Navarra (really good food and feast), Baleares (you must to be careful about the zones. The best and the worst are there), and Val D'Aran (a really proud country)...

This is the reason why I propose a ranking of Non UN Countries....

The fisrt task is to determine who are a Country. In Spain are really easy (You must only to see history), but in Africa is a bit more difficult...

May be interesting, don't you think?

Yes, I declare my bathroom also a non UN country. I'm very proud of it...
Please, let's be serious and don't mix games with politics...

OK Don't mix games with politics.

But I I think than some things are learn here:

First of all: We have got 7 kingdoms in Spain, I only said 6

Second: I Only demands respect for my country, Catalonia.

Third: I Started this because in this topic I have seen different non-recognized countries, THEN if some of these counts I said That Catalonia also can count. From My first intervention in this topic I separed the 2 positions clearly.

First I have a question, Catalonia has ever been a country? Because I haven´t studied Catalonia like a country in history, and searching in wikipedia about the Disappeared Countries, Catalonia is not in the list:
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor%C3 ... aparecidos

WOLFINAS wrote:I Only demands respect for my country

I am respecting your country: Spain
A country is a relatively large group of people organized under a single, usually independent government.
You could say Catalonia has a government, but all the towns has a government, and the higher government in Catalonia is the Government of Spain

WOLFINAS wrote:Third: I Started this because in this topic I have seen different non-recognized countries, THEN if some of these counts I said That Catalonia also can count. From My first intervention in this topic I separed the 2 positions clearly.

Yes, some times are strange cases like when someone who went to Yugoslavia (but when Yugoslavia was a country) or Slovaquia and Czechslovaquia in the past, also I don´t know if I have to count Gibraltar like UK or not, but when I have these doubts I ask in the forum and we try to talk about this problem

Well, if they were a county, which had the Pope's approval, I believe Catalonia could have been considered a country as much as anything else at the time

In the same way Belgium consists of three "countries": Flanders, Wallonia and Brussels. Belgium is an official federation where each of the three communities has a large amount of independicy.

OK, let's mix games with politics but maybe the name of this topic should be changed to "Nationalism matter"
What I can't understand is why, in the age when the human race is trying to destroy the creation that has done more damage to mankind (that is, the frontiers), we have this kind of problems.
We are trying to be just one nation, first Europe, then the world - yes, I know I'm a dreamer (aren't we playing just because we have the same currency?)
Everybody respects Catalonia and their customs, everybody respects Basque Country, and Flanders and so on... Why do they want their own frontiers when the whole Europe is trying to erradicate them? What is it for? Do they want to become fiscal paradises or something like that?
Things like this make people get tired and get angry with those regions... Aren't there in the world, even in Spain, more important things to resolve than if Catalonia was an independet county with Duke Idon'tknowwho 300 years ago...?
I think it's important, essential, to keep the costumes, culture and language of each region, to respect them... Isn't it enough? Or do people want to say, hey, I'm not Spanish, I'm Basque or Wallonian or whatever... what for? What do you get with that?

hmm.... let me think for a moment.....

denmark (hundreds of times)
finland (3x `89, EBTM05 2005)
netherlands (lot of times, as it is just 80km from my town)
belgium (drive-through, EBTM04, vlaamse meeting etc)
france (2002, dothuntingtour 05, F-EBTM06)
luxemburg (`05,`06, dothunting-drive-through)
austria (`05, the same....)
liechtenstein (`05, 5 min, to get a dot )
italy (what else than dothunting )
monaco ( `05, guess what !
spain (`78 & `05 aah.... dots.....)
andorra (`05, dothunting-drive-through)
czech republic (`05, just 500m to get notes )
poland (jan 06, a fuelstop, to get notes there )
sweden (`89, drive-through)
switzerland (1 hour, on a schooltrip (`87?) )
turkey ( `04, vacation and lot`s of dots! )
(east-germany, sep `89 )

haemoglobin wrote:sweden (`89, drive-through)
switzerland (1 hour, on a schooltrip (`87?) )
(east-germany, sep `89 )

and what about dothunting in these three?

I have to count east germany like an other country?

UPDATE!!

I'm from Belgium (for WOLFINAS it will be Flanders ) and I visited these countries:

1) Belgium
2) Holland
3) Germany
4) Luxemburg
5) Italy
6) England
7) Switzerland
8 ) The Vatican
9) Iceland
10) Greece
11) Austria
12) Norway
13) Finland

For me:

1 Italy
2 San Marino
3 The Vatican
4 Austria
5 Switzerland
6 France
7 Germany
8 England
9 Bosnia
10 Slovenia
11 Croazia
12 Greece
13 Spain
14 Hungary

list updated