EuroBillTracker

avij wrote:You should also realize that the world population has grown from about 100 million to the current 6400 million since then, so it's no longer practical to ask everyone's opinion on all things. Instead, you should pick someone you trust to take care of things you deem important. If it turns out that the person you voted didn't fulfill your expectations, you can always pick some better person the next time there's an election.

I understand the difficulties of implementing direct democracy nowadays. That's why I said that I wish that there was something similar. I'll be the first to admit I don't know how to do it. The problem is not "picking someone you trust". The problem is that, when you're voting, you're accepting (and rejecting) a whole set of proposals that may or may not come true. You can't really change anything. Either you accept it "as is" or you reject it completely. What if you don't agree with any of the parties? The Portuguese party I find myself agreeing with most of the time is Bloco de Esquerda (trotskist). I do agree with most of their social reforms (legalising light drugs, abortion, etc.; free universities; better shelter laws for unemployed and old people; etc, etc). Do I agree with their politic programme? Would I want them running the country? NO! I do not want a communist state. (No danger in that, though, since they only have 3 MP's)

avij wrote:There's always the constitution, so even those who are in the power can't do everything they want. They can't, for example, suddenly decide to kill everyone whose name starts with a "B".

I'm not saying the system of checks and balances doesn't work. It does work. The fact that a government can't do anything illegal doesn't mean they won't do anything contrary to what they promised in the first place (the current Portuguese government did just that) or anything bad for the country, though.

avij wrote:There was a national election in Portugal in 2002, two years ahead of the schedule. I'd say that's a good example that if some politician screws up too much, they can be removed from power.

The socialist government resigned because it wanted to. OK, the fact that they suffered a massive defeat in county elections was the main event which lead to that, but they didn't have to resign if they didn't want to, since popular vote validated their stay in power for four years. It wasn't the people who removed them from office. They had 115 (exactly half) out of 230 MP's. Do you really believe that, if they had one more, they still would have resigned?

BogPoet wrote:Do I agree with their politic programme? Would I want them running the country? NO! I do not want a communist state. (No danger in that, though, since they only have 3 MP's)

I agree with you that modern democracy is not perfect. But it is my opinion that it is the best alternative yet present. As you I am looking forward to other (better) systems, but I'm not inventing them. That's why I think you must work your part in the best system available.
It's also my opinion that it is useful to vote for the party you agree most with. If such a party is smal, you can help sounding a different sound in parliament wich can be influential when ideas are good. If you don't want that party to govern the county, you can let the polls influence your vote when that party gets too big.

BogPoet wrote:And if you had read my post carefully you'd have concluded I abhor even more dictatorships, since it doesn't even give you a chance to choose the ones to whom you give the blank cheque of power.

It never was my intention (and I din't think so) that you like dictatorship. I only was very curious to the (better) alternatives to democracy that you know of.

BogPoet wrote:Today we have the same sort of reverence towards democracy, people are led to think democracy is perfection and the only alternative is absolutism, so no one really questions it. I just think we should constantly question what we take for granted and make those things better, including democracy.

And there we agree again, I always think you must be open to new ideas and implement the best ones. I hope (and trust) that the current system can handle such move better than some governing systems in the past like monarchisme, dictatorship and communisme (as it was implemented in the sovjet union).

Thanks for you explantation

I have to vote (B), but I don't mind to do so.
I will vote Green, in the hope, the party still exists after June 13th. And yes, I'm also a member.

Personnally, I prefer the obligation present in Greece, Luxemburg and Belgium, every one gets to think what he thinks, and no one can press someone, not to go to the ballot. And in my humble opinion, it obliges the parties to make there message very clear, so also less scholared people can understand it as well, as they would be the first to think, that politics is nothing for them...

I don't have to vote, but I did do it yesterday. I think it's important to vote. If you don't do it, you can't say afterwarts that you don't agree with what's happening in Europe.

I agree.

Lintje wrote:I don't have to vote, but I did do it yesterday. I think it's important to vote. If you don't do it, you can't say afterwarts that you don't agree with what's happening in Europe.

And there were more people who thought so: about 40%. That's 10% more than 5 years ago.

Just did

Me too!

I voted in advance on Tuesday.

I voted, but I am not enthousistic about that.

I'm glad, my party can send an MEP to the Parliament. It didn't look that good...

groentje wrote:I'm glad, my party can send an MEP to the Parliament. It didn't look that good...

Greens get one place on the Parliament here Finland too. I'm sad because that

psych3 wrote:

groentje wrote:I'm glad, my party can send an MEP to the Parliament. It didn't look that good...

Greens get one place on the Parliament here Finland too. I'm sad because that

I'm sad too.. I voted Matti Wuori.. He was quite close anyway..

Fundamental wrote:

psych3 wrote:

groentje wrote:I'm glad, my party can send an MEP to the Parliament. It didn't look that good...

Greens get one place on the Parliament here Finland too. I'm sad because that

I'm sad too.. I voted Matti Wuori.. He was quite close anyway..

I'm sad because they got one mep. I was hoped that none

Well for all the fans of the European Greens: they became the second strongest party in my hometown Bonn. In several districts they were even the strongest (downtown 42,5%).