Incorrect dots and inaccuracies among city profiles

avij · Post by **avij** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:56 am

Ullgive wrote:In the profile http://www.eurobilltracker.eu/profile/?city=117689 I can see "Łódź" twice under "Dit profiel bevat hoofdzakelijk volgende locaties:" - why?

One of them is written using HTML entities, Łódź, and the other is in Unicode, Łódź. Both of them look the same on the screen.

Mullams · Post by **Mullams** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:38 pm

avij wrote:
Ullgive wrote:In the profile http://www.eurobilltracker.eu/profile/?city=117689 I can see "Łódź" twice under "Dit profiel bevat hoofdzakelijk volgende locaties:" - why?
One of them is written using HTML entities, Łódź, and the other is in Unicode, Łódź. Both of them look the same on the screen.

OK, I get it now. Thanks!

Fons · Post by **Fons** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:27 pm

Lutherstadt Wittenberg and Wittenberg is the same
http://www.eurobilltracker.eu/profile/?city=115296
http://www.eurobilltracker.eu/profile/?city=57230

alex77r · Post by **alex77r** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:35 pm

Antwerpen (in flemish) = Anvers (for french-speaking Belgians)
Nürnberg (in german) = Nuremberg (in french) = Neurenberg (in dutch) = Norimberga (in italian)
Helsinki (in finnish), Helsingfors (in swedish)

More will follow...

Dakkus · Post by **Dakkus** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:58 pm

alex77r wrote: Helsinki (in finnish), Helsingfors (in swedish)

..Helsingi (in Estonian), Хельсинки (Russian, "Khjeljsin-ki"), ヘルシンキ (Japanese, "Herushinki") :)

coach vahid · Post by **coach vahid** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:51 am

antibes 06600
<antibes = Antibes

Argelès-gazost 65400
Argelès-gazost = Argeles-gazost

Argelès-sur-mer 66700
Argeles-sur-mer = Argelès-sur-mer = Argelès-s/r-mer

Asnières-sur-oise 95270
Asnières-s/oise = Asnières-sur-oise

Asnières-sur-seine 92600
Asnières = Asnières-sur-seine = Asnière = Asnière-sur-seine = Asnières = Asnières-sur = Asniere-sur-seine = Asnieres-sur-seine = Asnieres/seine

Aulnay-sous-bois 93600
Aulnay = Aulnay-sous-bois = Aulnay-sois-bois = Aulnay-sous-sois

Bois-d'arcy 78390
Bois-d-arcy = Bois-d'arcy

Bois-guillaume 76230
Bois-guillaume = Bois-guillaume-[rouen]

Boissy-saint-léger 94470
Boissy-saint-léger = Boissy-saint--léger = Boissy-st-léger = Boissy-st.léger

Boissy-sous-saint-yon 91790
Boissy-sous-saint-yon = Boissy-sous-saintyon = Boissy-sous-st-yon = Boissy-sous-st.-yon = Boissy-sous-st.yon

Bussy-saint-georges 77600
Bussy-st-georges = Bussy-saint-georges

cergy 95000
Cargy = Cergy = Cergy-le-haut

Chevilly-larue 94550
Chevilly---larue = Chevilly-larue

claviers 83830
Claviers-(30-km-de-draguignan)

Conflans-sainte-honorine 78700
Conflans-ste-honorine = Conflans-sainte-honorine = Conflans-ste.-honorine = Conflans-ste.honorine = Conflans-sate-honorine =

croix 59170
Croix-59 = Croix

enghien-les-bains 95880
Enghien = Enghien-les-bains = Enghein-les-bains = Enghein

fréjus 86600 ou saint-raphäel 83530
Frejus-/-st.-raphaël

poitiers 86000
Futuroscope = Poitier = Poiters = Poitiers

L'Ile-saint-denis 93450
Ile-saint-denis = L'Île-saint-denis

La-celle-saint-cloud 78170
La-celle-st-cloud = La-celle-st.-cloud = La-celle-st.cloud = La-celle-saint-cloud

La-chapelle-saint-mesmin 45380
La-chapelle-st-mesmin = La-chapelle-saint-mesmin

agde 34300
Le-cap-d’agde = Le-cap-d’agde = Le-cap-d'agdes = Le-cap-d'agde

Le-kremlin-bicêtre 94270
Le-kremlin-bicetre = Le-kremlin-bicêtre

Lieu-saint-amand 59111
Lieu-st-amand = Lieu-saint-amand

Lorris 45260
Lorris-45 = Lorris

Mantes = Mantes-la-jolie ou Mantes-la-ville

Marne-la-vallée 77000
Marne-la-vallee = Marne-la-valée = Marne-la-vallée

mont-saint-michel 50170
Mont-st.-michel = Mont-st-michel

Montreuil 93100
Montreuil-sous-bois = Montreuil

Muzillac 56190
Muzillac-56 = Muzillac

neuilly-sur-marne 93330
Neuilly/marne

Neuilly-sur-seine 92200
Neuilly =Neuilly-sur-seine

Oussoy-en-gâtinais 45290
Oussoy-en-gatinais-45 = Oussoy-en-gâtinais-45 = Oussoy-en-gatinais = Oussoy

Ozoir-la-ferrière 77330
Ozoir = Ozoir-la-ferrière

pontoise 95300
Cergy-pontoise = code postal pontoise

Saint-benoît-la-forêt 37500
St-benoît-la-fôret = Saint-benoît-la-forêt 37500

Saint-brice-sous-forêt 95350
St-brice-sous-forêt = Saint-brice-sous-forêt

saint-clar-de-rivière 31600
St-clar-de-rivière = St-clar

Saint-didier-en-velay 43140
St-didier-en-velay

Saint-dié-des-vosges 88100
St-dié = Saint-dié

Saint-étienne 42000
Saint-étienne = Saint-etienne = St-étienne = St-etienne

Saint-florent 20217
St.-florent = Saint-florent

Saint-gaudens 31800
St-gaudens = Saint-gaudens

Saint-geniès 24590
St-geniès = St.-geniès = Saint-geniès

St-geniès-bellevue = Saint-geniès-bellevue

Saint-gilles-croix-de-vie 85800
Saint-gilles-croix-de-vie = St-gilles-croix-de-vie

Saint-gilles-les-bains 97000 ile de la réunion
St-gilles-les-bains = Saint-gilles-les-bains

Saint-herblain 44800
St-herblain = Saint-herblain

Saint-laurent-sur-saône 01750
St-laurent-sur-saône = Saint-laurent-saône = Saint-laurent-sur-saône

Saint-Laurent-sur-Sèvre 85290
St-laurent-sur-sèvre = Saint-Laurent-sur-Sèvre

Saint-louis 68300
St-louis = Saint-louis

Saint-Maurice-l'Exil 38550
St-maurice-l'exil = Saint-Maurice-l'Exil

Saint-michel-sur-orge 91240
St-michel-sur-orge = Saint-michel-sur-orge

Saint-nom-la-bretèche 78860
Saint-nom-la-bretèche,-yvelines = Saint-nom-la-bretèche,-yvelines,-i-d-f

Saint-ouen 93400
St-ouën = Saint-ouën = le vrai nom Saint-ouen

saint-paul 97411
St-paul

Saint-paul-trois-châteaux 26130
St-paul-trois-chateaux = Saint-paul-3-chateaux = Saint-paul-trois-châteaux

Saint-rémy-de-provence 13210
St-rémy-de-provence = Saint-rémy-de-provence = St-remy-de-provence

Saint-sauveur-de-montagut 07190
St.-sauveur-de-montagut = Saint-sauveur-de-montagut

Saint-Tropez 83990
St-tropez = Saint-Tropez

Sainte-geneviève-des-bois 91700
Ste-geneviève-des-bois = Sainte-geneviève-des-bois

Sartrouville 78500
Sartrouvlile = Sartrouville

Vernon 27200
Vernon---st-marcel = Vernon

Villiers-en-bière 77190
Villiers-en-bière = Villiers-en-bières

avij · Post by **avij** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 10:27 am

alex77r wrote:Antwerpen (in flemish) = Anvers (for french-speaking Belgians)
Nürnberg (in german) = Nuremberg (in french) = Neurenberg (in dutch) = Norimberga (in italian)
Helsinki (in finnish), Helsingfors (in swedish)

More will follow...

Except for Neurenberg, these and a significant amount of entries were already handled. In fact, Helsinki was the very first city entry that I combined when the new version of the site went live. Please concentrate on finding the inconsistencies from EBT's database, these problems weren't there.

Vladislav · Post by **Vladislav** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:28 pm

Dakkus wrote: ..Helsingi (in Estonian), Хельсинки (Russian, "Khjeljsin-ki"), ヘルシンキ (Japanese, "Herushinki")

I don't think, that it is good idea to translate citynames to russian. In that case EVERY cityname needs to be translated because of different alphabet.

With best regards

Vladislav Frank

alex77r · Post by **alex77r** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:27 pm

alex77r wrote:Antwerpen (in flemish) = Anvers (for french-speaking Belgians)
Nürnberg (in german) = Nuremberg (in french) = Neurenberg (in dutch) = Norimberga (in italian)
Helsinki (in finnish), Helsingfors (in swedish)

More will follow...

BTW, I don't understand why on Babel you ask us to translate into french some citinames (for instance Vienna to Vienne) but not belgian citinames.

In France, we say "Nuremberg" instead of "Nürnberg" and in french-speaking Belgium they say "Anvers" instead of "Antwerpen".
These are just a few examples, but there are many other cases.

I think it would be nice to harmonize the citinames in the lists (at least for the 100 first) into the same form : we translate OR we don't translate.

Vladislav wrote:
Dakkus wrote: ..Helsingi (in Estonian), Хельсинки (Russian, "Khjeljsin-ki"), ヘルシンキ (Japanese, "Herushinki")
I don't think, that it is good idea to translate citynames to russian. In that case EVERY cityname needs to be translated because of different alphabet.

With best regards

Vladislav Frank

I think the same

Dakkus · Post by **Dakkus** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:40 pm

alex77r wrote: I don't think, that it is good idea to translate citynames to russian. In that case EVERY cityname needs to be translated because of different alphabet.

With best regards

Vladislav Frank

I think the same[/quote]

Me too ;)

Gauss · Post by **Gauss** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:00 am

alex77r wrote:Antwerpen (in flemish) = Anvers (for french-speaking Belgians)
Nürnberg (in german) = Nuremberg (in french) = Neurenberg (in dutch) = Norimberga (in italian)
Helsinki (in finnish), Helsingfors (in swedish)

More will follow...

It is obviously infeasible to put the name of any place with two names into Babel, for translation into (currently 13, soon probably 14) EBT-languages. Likewise, it has turned out to be infeasible to edit all titles of city profiles to list several names - equally for reasons of aesthetics (in the lists with the rankings) and work effort.
The simplest method is to keep what we get. That means, the name/spelling used most often will generally determine how the profile is named.

Translations are an all-or-nothing business, so if a city is represented by a text snippet in Babel, there is a chance to get ittranslated/transliterated to all languages, including Greek and (once it's finished) Russian. However, each translation is at the discretion of the translator(s) for the given language (say, Russian). Hence if he thinks that it's better for the site not to translate/transliterate those city names, they simply don't get translated/transliterated. If someone else complains he will be asked to discuss such matters with the responsible translator/s, preferably on the forum. It has not yet happened that anyone complained about translations to a language which does not have a dedicated branch on the forum.

Since Oct 26 each city profile lists also other names subsumed in the same profile. In order to suppress crap (such as Antcwerpen, Antwerrpen, or Antwerp, Bosnia-Herzegovina), the list is restricted to locations which have been used sufficiently often (in 5% of all entries in the profile or more than x hundred entries, I believe). This should accommodate most concerns about minority languages, villages administered by different villages in one municipality lack of transparency, etc.

The criteria employed when selecting the "babelised" cities were:
1) Eurozone
2) one million inhabitants (exception for Frankfurt, but only as seat of the ECB)
3) at least four or five substantially different (that is, other than by accentuation or appended final letter) names in the nine primary Eurozone (hence EBT) languages de, en, es, fi, fr, gr, it, nl, pt.
Which led to Brussels, Cologne, Frankfurt/Main, Lisbon, Milan, Munich, Naples, Rome, Vienna.

Complaints welcome. May lead to abandoning babelised cities altogether.

Vladislav · Post by **Vladislav** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:07 am

-----
However, each translation is at the discretion of the translator(s) for the given language (say, Russian). Hence if he thinks that it's better for the site not to translate/transliterate those city names, they simply don't get translated/transliterated.
-----

Hm-m-m...
Let me (as russian translator) to explain what I mean.
I think, that I'm educated enough and have many geographic knowledges. But, for example, if I look on the list of 30 best cities (!),
I will see
-----
5 Oosterhout
9 Zaventem
10 Anjalankoski
11 Vantaa
12 Joensuu
17 Pori
24 Herentals
28 Nieuwpoort
30 Oulu
-----
which are completely unknown for me. And I don't want to try to read names to make them russian, because I will surely make some mistakes (I can not read dutch or finnish). Probably it may be solved by taking a good map with russian names... Probably.

But I don't think, that it is a good idea.

Moreover, I'm not sure if it is needed to allow russian (and other cyrillic) citynames. Suppose, that you obtain a hit from Челябинск (one of russian cities with 1mio population), will it be possible to transliterate it for yourself only to understand, how this damned word must be read?

(Chelyabinsk). It seems, that arabic, chinese and japan cities are written in latin, so no reason to allow cyrillic letters.

Idea: translating web-site to russian is good (it cause no problems, but help some users), but translating citynames MAKES problems to european users, which have majority (98%, I think). So, probably, it's better to delete such citynames from Babel. Now they are translated.

With best regards

Vladislav Frank

apholzer · Post by **apholzer** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:07 pm

ramsen and Ramsen is the same location...

http://www.eurobilltracker.eu/profile/?city=95
http://www.eurobilltracker.eu/profile/?city=78050

androl · Post by **androl** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:01 pm

Gauss wrote:The criteria employed when selecting the "babelised" cities were:
2) one million inhabitants (exception for Frankfurt, but only as seat of the ECB)

and Köln (986,168), because you round up, so the criterium is actually 950,000, and Bruxelles (140,000), because an entity with 1,018,804 inhabitants is also frequently called Bruxelles

MetalAtog · Post by **MetalAtog** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:44 pm

I've registered some notes at a new location over aweek ago and I'm still waiting for the dot.

http://www.eurobilltracker.eu/index.php ... d=22932777