Suspicious notes and users

[CarlosManta]

CobbDouglas: 21 NOTES AND 18 TRIPLE HITS + 1 QUADRUPLE HIT. LUCKY MAN!

I would say "moderate all except one", as this keeps the interesting information, but strangely not all triples involve the same users. Seems like Hit bills were bundled together at some stage.

[Adela.Merchan]

CobbDouglas: 21 NOTES AND 18 TRIPLE HITS + 1 QUADRUPLE HIT. LUCKY MAN!

I would say "moderate all except one", as this keeps the interesting information, but strangely not all triples involve the same users. Seems like Hit bills were bundled together at some stage.

Perhaps this could solve your doubts
Me, like presidente, don't understand what it is the fun of this game, but if they enjoy that...

[Phaseolus]

FRAMAMAMO : 840 notes

[zimmerge]

CobbDouglas: 21 NOTES AND 18 TRIPLE HITS + 1 QUADRUPLE HIT. LUCKY MAN!

I would say "moderate all except one", as this keeps the interesting information, but strangely not all triples involve the same users. Seems like Hit bills were bundled together at some stage.

Perhaps this could solve your doubts
Me, like presidente, don't understand what it is the fun of this game, but if they enjoy that...

Dear all,

please excuse my bad english .

First of all I had to say that I collect my hit -bills (so you can see, that all notes are by my when I take it into ebt) and when I have a bundle (at the moment I have 2376 hits - 63% of all are active-hits - and I have every day some hits) I bring it to any bank in vienna (I visited this year 182 different banks and have about 305 changings) - this was the first time that one user find a part of one of this bundle. Nobody (include myself) knows where my next changing will be. "Unfortunately" there are many bundle-trackers in vienna and sometimes a bundle will found (at the moment I have 2776 moderated hits) - but this is ebt: we give bills in ebt and hope that the will be find by anyone ...

But if anyone do not accept this - please feel free by moderating any of this tripples - no one knows when a bill will be found from a other tracker and no one knows the place where this will be.

Hope to see many of you on summer-meeting in Vienna - I will be there

best wishes - zimmerge

[presidente]

First of all you english is good not bad!!!
I think the guidelines not supported your behaviour :
Holding back notes, artificial entry patterns
We know it may be tempting to set some personal records by holding on to notes for a while and then entering them on a single day, but this is not a good idea. This type of behavior skews all kind of statistics, the most important being wrong timestamps which result in inaccurate travel data of hits. In the worst case you will even get 'reverse hits', where another user already tracked a note you spent in the past but decided to enter on EBT much later. As a guideline, you should enter the notes within two weeks of obtaining them, preferably as soon as possible.

In Italy we say "discuss of Angel sex" I am of the opinion that we have to make the possible not to change the normal movement of the notes, collecting hit notes and bringing all this together to a bank you change enormously the natural movement of this notes.

About your game in Wien this is an other thing that I don't understand but I don't see nothing of not legal, for me are real hits but absolutely no interesting. This is why fo me must exist this classification
REAL HIT
HIT NO INTERESTING (like Wien hits or friendly)
MODERATED (fake hits)
we can continue to have only two categories but this means that we have to delete fake hits and not only moderate.

[erasmuston]

http://nl.eurobilltracker.eu/profile/?c ... ser=137630
SchwuppeAusmTal: 5 notes two hits, both with Chickenhawk

http://nl.eurobilltracker.eu/notes/?id=60635573

[Nomen Nescio]

CobbDouglas: 21 NOTES AND 18 TRIPLE HITS + 1 QUADRUPLE HIT. LUCKY MAN!

I would say "moderate all except one", as this keeps the interesting information, but strangely not all triples involve the same users. Seems like Hit bills were bundled together at some stage.

Perhaps this could solve your doubts
Me, like presidente, don't understand what it is the fun of this game, but if they enjoy that...

Dear all,

:
:
:

But if anyone do not accept this - please feel free by moderating any of this tripples - no one knows when a bill will be found from a other tracker and no one knows the place where this will be.

Hope to see many of you on summer-meeting in Vienna - I will be there

best wishes - zimmerge

In an area like Wien ( or Helsinki among others) it is no strange thing that someone runs into a "mine" when fetching a bundle of notes from a bank, it's part of the game.

And keep in mind, although all trackers don't do it or like the idea to systematically fetch bundles especially for tracking these notes, these trackers do ensure that there're a lot of tracked notes floating around, heightening the probability for other trackers to score hits from circulating notes.

[trinacria]

Good morning, I suppose that someone check my data base. I woul like to know why you make this!!!! It's incredible, it's not correct, i'm very disappointed and angry, for what happened. Now I attend your comments about this matter, asap. Please reply immediately.

[Crazy Bob]

robje yet again

2009-04-22 16:25:11 Xxxxx6947xxx Pxxxxx Sas van gent ( Nederland, 4551GJ)
2009-04-22 16:22:48 Xxxxx6947xxx (*) Pxxxxx Sas van gent ( Nederland, 4551GJ)

Please moderate the above "hit" and (further) investigate robje's entries.

[Petri6]

I have nothing against fetching bundles from a bank, although I don't do it myself. But I think that hit notes should not be but in bundles or at least not make a bundle of hit notes, hit notes should in my opinion be used "naturally", i.e. when you buy groceries.

[Gnaeus]

CobbDouglas: 21 NOTES AND 18 TRIPLE HITS + 1 QUADRUPLE HIT. LUCKY MAN!

I would say "moderate all except one", as this keeps the interesting information, but strangely not all triples involve the same users. Seems like Hit bills were bundled together at some stage.

Perhaps this could solve your doubts
Me, like presidente, don't understand what it is the fun of this game, but if they enjoy that...

I am another one of the "Wien Bundle-trackers" -- I have four bundles of on my desk now, that I will enter today, and drop at another bank, changing them for or most likley. Then I will enter those, and change them back into somewhere else. This pattern lets me enter a large number of bills. I rarely enter single notes, except for the few I get travelling in Europe, at reststops, airports, and the like. People talk about how this system of entering bundles is "unnatural" and that it leads to "uninteresting" hits. Here are three hits I got yesterday -- all, I think, very interesting! Yet all of them involved me entering notes from a bundle. Had I not picked up those bundles, we would never have seen how these notes traveled.





Yes, sometimes a note entered by one bundle-tracker in Vienna gets found by another bundle-tracker in Vienna. The two triples above are both evidence of this. But the third finder of each note was someone far away. The comment I see most often on this forum about this hit pattern is:

About your game in Wien this is an other thing that I don't understand but I don't see nothing of not legal, for me are real hits but absolutely no interesting.

Just think it through for a moment. Statistics on EBT show that most money stays within the country where it was printed/issued. Finnish notes don't tend to be found in Malta, and Irish notes mostly stay in Ireland. If every single person who ever touched any given note actually entered it on EBT, the pattern would be that an average note doesn't really move much, because the average person doesn't really move much. I'm a diplomat, and travel often to other countries/cities, yet even so, I am within the city limits of Vienna for a good 45 weeks every year. Most people travel even less than I do. So when money moves out of it's "hometown" it is unusual. That's all that our bundle-tracking in Vienna really proves.

So if you don't think our Vienna-Vienna hits are interesting, please just ignore them. Many folks do find them interesting.

[Cobbdouglas]

Most things already said, I’d like to add my point on this issue, just because I was the once originally accused to be suspicious:
- I got these 20 5 Euro bills, as stated in the comment field, at a bank in Donau City. I had a work meeting at 2 p.m. there and was a little bit too early. So I decided, spontaneously, to exchange one 100 Euro bill for 20 5 Euro bills there. No long run plan involved.
- I know that team nossi and gnaeus are living or working close to that bank, I am also at Donau City at least once a week because of my work; to reduce mass hits I don’t change at this location complete 100 bills bundles. Banks in Vienna tend to keep these 100 bills bundles together, so by asking for much smaller amounts I actively reduce the likelihood of getting already tracked bundles. This works in general quiet well but we can’t reduce this risk to zero. If I would not go to any bank which is also used as a (potential) note source by other trackers I would have to quiet using ebt. Not just in Vienna but in almost all parts of Austria.
- Yes, I also think that bundling hit notes is not a smart move, just because I know that this may lead to such discussions. I always spend my hit notes as soon as possible after I got them.
- I also reduced the amount of notes entered in Vienna significantly and I am trying to enter as many notes as possible from outside Vienna, as this leads to more interesting hits, for my hit partners as for myself.
- All this said it is still completely within the rules of ebt and not suspicious at all if Viennese tracker enter 1000+ bills a week by changing bundles of 100 bills at banks. As gnaeus said, that proves at least that most bills stay at the same place for quite a long time. Such a Wien-Wien hit is in my opinion very interesting, although just within Vienna and from one bank to another.
- What happens in Vienna is not suspicious, so this thread is the wrong place for this discussion, the mass hits happening time by time are more a proof that the Viennese tracker don’t fake. If 10+ tracker move lots of bundles from bank to bank finding one of these bundles again has to happen. Maybe uninteresting but as long as it happens randomly part of the game and a sign that these bundles are all real.

Summarized there is nothing suspicious but just the result of the unusually high activity in Vienna. The same is the case in Finland; the same is or was the case in Nürnberg and Helmbrechts. I can understand that the resulting hits are not really interesting for people outside the respective areas and I would personally suggest the following solutions. Please keep in mind that this is my personal opinion and that it is likely that other Viennese tracker disagree in some points:
- Additional filters at the ebt webpage hitlist. An option to show all hits except hits involving country/city xy would be helpful
- Partly moderation. In the case between me and zimmerge I would keep the quadruple and moderate the triples to normal hits. So they would stay hits for zimmerge but not for me because I was the one who found them bundled.
- Modify the rules for auto moderation to, for example, 10 days and 10 km. If a hit does not meet one of the two criteria it would be moderated. If needed manual de-moderation would be possible.
- Don’t blame mass hits automatically as being suspicious, stick with the term uninteresting.
- Don’t bundle hit notes, if you do so (for whatever reason) try to spend them in a shop where they will get separated anyway or at least at a bank which is outside the areas where your fellow trackers are especially active.
- Don’t consider moderated hits as fake/bad hits. More moderation but keeping moderated hits legal for some regional games may be a satisfying solution for people from “hit oasis” like Vienna/Nürnberg/Helmbrechts/Finland and people active in “hit desserts” like parts of southern Europe.

Hope to hit you all in the future
CobbDouglas

[presidente]

I repeat my opinion: nothing of not legal (or fake) in this game but explain me why this hit must be considered interesting http://it.eurobilltracker.eu/notes/?id=53844305 and this hit "earns" 10 days because Ergo inserted it after. but I repeat fakers are other and not who make this Wien game!!!

[nossi]

Dear presidente!

I would agree with you to make a classification for non-interesting hits, if there is a very important difference to moderated hits: All non-interesting hits must be as visible as interesting hits but could be filtered if somebody wants. if default would only show interesting hits, I could live with it, if I can choose "all hits" not only for our hits but for all users. There should also be a ranking only for interesting hits and one for all hits (except moderated ones).

In this case I would declare all our hits to non-interesting hits, because what should be more interesting on 23 hits with spanier_20 then on Wien-Wien-hits?

[presidente]

Dear presidente!

I would agree with you to make a classification for non-interesting hits, if there is a very important difference to moderated hits: All non-interesting hits must be as visible as interesting hits but could be filtered if somebody wants. if default would only show interesting hits, I could live with it, if I can choose "all hits" not only for our hits but for all users. There should also be a ranking only for interesting hits and one for all hits (except moderated ones).

In this case I would declare all our hits to non-interesting hits, because what should be more interesting on 23 hits with spanier_20 then on Wien-Wien-hits?

Depending or not from Wien game I think that we need a different classification: for error I insert a note already inserted from my colleague ALDAMAR I will ask (or I can choise..but this is an other discussion ) to put it not interesting; somebody make an hit in series we moderate it waiting for complete cancellation.