Call, Rumours, the EBT-Tool, Wap and more...

[yoto]

PS: let's not start a discussion about politics ok ? We have enough to work with...

That is right ! For politics we can start a whole other forum. and that will be endless one. there will be sides and no one's right.

[jovada]

There are over 100.000 users which are not on the forum discussing the issue here.

I think 90% of the people who are not on this forum discussing the issue simply don't care.

[jack_isidore]

at least, the forum is not split, since the .com forum does not exist. that gives us the opportunity to discuss on one platform and not on two

from this point of view - thank you giro for closing the forum on .com. but please set a link to the active forum - it is the connection between the two sides and it is also important for your position to be discussed, isn't it? every user should have the right to be informed about what's happening. so don't keep 'your' users uninformed.

and another great thing: people start to discuss about the basic constitution of our great european project. i am sure that leads us to a more professional situation than it is now.

[snakefire77]

Avij and Nerzhul did not drag anybody to the .eu site, we followed them freely. They send the e-mail out but they didn't force us to insert note in the new site.

There is a difference between going somewhere freely and going somewhere blindfolded on the basis of unilateral deceiteful email .

I for one did not ask for such an email, nor did I ask for the .eu site. Furthermore I do not like the way Avij and Nerzhul just used my eurobill data for their .eu without my concent. (it's not because my data was on his server that he had a right to it)

I think that most EBT users would agree that creating 2 sites was not something we wanted or asked for.

The only reason .eu is getting more inputs is because most people got blindfolded by the email and believe that Avij and Nerzhul are the actual founders and owners of EBT (they conveniently forgot to mention in their email that the person running the .com was the actual founder of EBT)

Instead of creating the .eu, they had better joined their forces to create a website with a program that is able to enter your notes on all tracking sites.

[DOH!]

Avij and Nerzhul did not drag anybody to the .eu site, we followed them freely. They send the e-mail out but they didn't force us to insert note in the new site.

There is a difference between going somewhere freely and going somewhere blindfolded on the basis of unilateral deceiteful email .

I for one did not ask for such an email, nor did I ask for the .eu site. Furthermore I do not like the way Avij and Nerzhul just used my eurobill data for their .eu without my concent. (it's not because my data was on his server that he had a right to it)

I think that most EBT users would agree that creating 2 sites was not something we wanted or asked for.

The only reason .eu is getting more inputs is because most people got blindfolded by the email and believe that Avij and Nerzhul are the actual founders and owners of EBT (they conveniently forgot to mention in their email that the person running the .com was the actual founder of EBT)

Instead of creating the .eu, they had better joined their forces to create a website with a program that is able to enter your notes on all tracking sites.

Stop putting oil on the fire!

[wisi]

@snakefire: giro was the one copying the data, not avij nor nerzhul. the data was on the servers of avij since 2003. I joined ebt 2004 and was fine with my data being on a server in finnland, not on a server in france. I voluntereed to translate to german after I met avij and nerzhul in Amsterdam 2006 and was not asked by giro if it is okay for me that he copies my work...

[pooca]

Furthermore I do not like the way Avij and Nerzhul just used my eurobill data for their .eu without my concent. (it's not because my data was on his server that he had a right to it)

Other way; I didn't like when Giro moved all that data to France without informing anyone.
I asked him to delete my note data on .com, let's see when it'll happen. Some users already asked avij to do the same and he did it.

[ErGo]

Furthermore I do not like the way Avij and Nerzhul just used my eurobill data for their .eu without my concent. (it's not because my data was on his server that he had a right to it)

You can write a mail to contact@eurobill.eu and your data will be deleted like
L'€UROP€€N SUR EBT.COM!!! does it! (just replace .eu with .com)

But I want the same right on the .COM-site! I want access to my data or my data should get deleted. I write a mail to their support but nothing happens!!!

And no - i don't follow Avij and Nerzhul blindfolded - i trust them, they show it to me through their behavior the last years!

[DrGreenTom]

Ok to put it shortly : I created a site. People used it. A community that I wished not to lead, control or guide flourished on this forum (a personnal choice) . This community used the site.

Phillippe, please don’t forget in the time you were away, this community kept making extra’s for EBT with as a result without any doubt the best euro-tracking site. This is thanks to both you AND thanks to those other users who helped developing the site.

If, in the four years you basically were away from EBT, those users would’ve developed those features not on EBT but on an another tracking site (let’s call it ‘tracker X’) and at the same time EBT in your absence would not have evolved, then what you think would’ve happened ?
Don’t you agree that in such case site ‘trackerX’ would by now have far more superior statistics and features and therefore as a result would’ve probably gained the biggest number of users. In other words: don’t you agree that the work of those volunteers are a key factor for EBT still existing ???

One day, members of the community with high status encouraged users to go to another site. So
i) they must take responsibility for splitting the community

I cannot support this point of view: you didn’t exactly communicate as you seem to think users are no more than sheep, you kicked out your admins on grounds that I find questionable (but if you wanted to sack them, which you could have done, you did it the entirely wrong way), and you broke into a private server.
As a result I think it’s way too easy to put all the blame on ‘the others’

ii) the people who hosted the site previously may not simply take the whole database of 100.000+ users and start using it as is : the "movers" must move their own notes;

a) I’m sorry to disappoint you but technically .eu is the legal database and you are a hacker running an illegal version on .com, violating the own terms and conditions on .com (.com says the server is located in Finland and therefore following Finnish law, while the database running on .com is NOT in Finland as you copied it to another server in another country - i never approved my data being stored in France !)
b) The users are not threatened at gunpoint to enter at .eu. Yet the statistics clearly show they prefer it above .com

iii) so if 3749 people move to EU, you will have the notes of those people. Assuming, they have all entered 100.000 notes, the total still amounts to less than the 38.000.000 notes you have on *.eu.

The biggest users all joined .eu so this isn’t true.

To put it simply, even though you are the loudest, you are not the majority. There are over 100.000 users which are not on the forum discussing the issue here.

Most of them are inactive. Or don’t care. All the top users are on the discussion board as they care and want news. And probably a re-unification.

I understand your thinking, I know how anarchists think. I am not an anarchist so I can only disagree with you and protect myself from people like you and their emotional reactions. Thus my fait-accomplis in moving the hosting.

This has nothing to do with anarchism. You simply don’t seem to understand that every user who contributed to EBT owns his personal share and you haven't got the rights to the entire EBT. Now you managed to arrive at the point to complain about ownership and at the same time see no point in violating other people’s ownership. To me it looks a case of the pot calling the kettle black.


i think both sides will have to put away their pride, look at themselves and what they did and start thinking 'what can i do to reunite EBT'

[avij]

Furthermore, who is to say that EBT is the only thing running on that server. One could easily have several paying sites on the server or the server could already be in use for other personel reasons.

Uh oh, you really got me there

Yes, it's true that there are indeed other web sites hosted on this server, such as my own home page.

Last week there were 4094670 HTTP requests to the server. Here are the top 7 domains:

Code: Select all

3147990 www.eurobilltracker.com
 740805 static3.eurobilltracker.com
 192157 eurobilltracker.com
   6109 leopardi.miuku.net
   4088 ebt.miuku.net
   2169 wap.eurobilltracker.com
    436 miuku.net

As you can see, there were more requests to the WAP gateway than to my own personal webpage. Most of the 6109 requests to leopardi.miuku.net were made by my server management script (it communicates via HTTP). I don't find it particularly unreasonable that I consume about 0.01% of the server's resources for my own purposes.

I'm also running a public time server on EBT's web server -- another service that doesn't benefit EBT at all, except perhaps by having accurate timestamps for the note entries.

As for the money issue itself.. I only brought it up to express my commitment to the project. EBT would probably run just fine with a less powerful (cheaper) server, but I thought it'd be nice to have some extra capacity, just in case. I'm sorry if my generousity has offended someone.

[Miles66]

The war is over and the alliance has won over the czar. The czar still sits in a throne room, but that is a room full of charred black colour of the war's destruction.

Yesterday your long message was brilliant. But today its bu**shit.
Sorry for this word from me.

This is not a "war", I dont see an king or something else. I see only 3 Admins with many differents ...

[vinc17]

L'€UROP€€N SUR EBT.COM!!! does it! (just replace .eu with .com)

BTW, I've just tried to do the same as L'€UROP€€N on the .com site: change my user name to mention ebt.eu, and this change was not taken into account (ditto in the profile, while putting something else was accepted). So, Giro allows users to violate his own rules if this is OK for him!

[WinstonSmith]

Furthermore, who is to say that EBT is the only thing running on that server. One could easily have several paying sites on the server or the server could already be in use for other personel reasons.

Uh oh, you really got me there

Yes, it's true that there are indeed other web sites hosted on this server, such as my own home page.

And did Giro illegally copy to his own server in France also your personal homepage, as well as he did with the data of > 18 000 users and > 30 million banknotes?

[bhoeyb]

But I want the same right on the .COM-site! I want access to my data or my data should get deleted. I write a mail to their support but nothing happens!!!

I asked to use the same right as you mentioned. Too bad .com decides it's not your data anymore, but data from the url owner .

[JanV]

Yesterday I got the impression that people where working on a solution. Today I see people insulting eachother. It makes me very sad. Please find a solution. Stop flaming eachother.

Kind regards,

Jan Vente (JanV)
Berkenwoude
The Netherlands