Ranking : the concept of trees

[Mr Euro]

I'm on the same brainwave as Craft is.

Just here to get some real hits. Ranking doesn't matter for me. I believe everyone is equal to eachother. And concerning the fakers, well, eventually we get rid of them because everyone gets annoyed by them.

This was my last post concerning referral/ranking tree concept. I think my opinion is clear to anyone.

Mr Euro

[Skylimit]

I think it's not very productive to make - even indirectly - people think they are estimated to have a mental capacity of a less than 12 year old if they don't fully agree

That's not what was intended

Please keep within polite

Goes for some of the other members, if I read through the discussion again

I think it's not very productive

Posting a new idea is trying to be constructive.
Always repeating the same is not.

So no more postings about referral is fine for me ...
Those who are interested can re-read what has been written
Referring to 12 year olds, is an indication of what I think was the difficulty in understanding the ranking ... and not meant as an insult ...
Suggesting on the other hand, we should build a competition in "welles/nietes" is not nice either ...

Case closed

[Craft]

[Skylimit]

some of the other members

I am not referring to anyone in particular, and certainly not to you. (In which case I would have used "you"... ) I even thought you were the moderator of this discussion, but got you mixed up with craco ... So, a bit confused in your comment as a moderator ... which you are not
I was not referring to any specific thread either ... I started a few this week, in which the same members, who repeatedly say they are not interested, keep repeating this in every thread I create, over and over ...

Don't you know the saying : "It takes lots of ideas, to come up wih ONE good one"

Maybe it's this stupid Newbie label, that encourages this behaviour
because on a forum we are all equal ... and no ranking is required.
In fact, fresh ideas sometimes come from outsiders

"welles/nietes" is not nice either ...

The fact your missing this one, could have made you think I was not referring to you. The emoticon indicates, that it is not to be taken serious. In fact it's dutch, and I do not know how to say it in English,
but it is a never ending discussion where all the first party says is "YES", and all the second party ever says is "NO", so nobody is really saying anything, and you may as well call it a day ... Hence my comment, "Case Closed" ... Which is impossible on a forum, so I should have used "I Rest My Case". But since English is not my Mother Tongue, these communication errors, slip in from time to time

Anyway, if I were to have a personal problem with anybody, I would send a PM rather than discuss this on this forum, because now we are really talking Off-Topic (which really doesn't matter, since I rest my case)

What surprises me though, is, as an outsider (which I will probably stay for a very long time) that I got this idea by just checking the stats, noting that Finland has an unusual high amount of bills, ... , they are a smaller country in terms of population than France or Italy ... and since this site probably started off in France, there is no way the Finns could have made it so high, unless they have a different CULTURE ... The very word you used ... (culture here meaning : EBT-habits)

Then you check out the Finnish user and note they have a more interesting profile for this site "Many small brooks make a great River"
as you put it.

Then you check out, how they get to these "Many small brooks", and you must be blind not to notice that 3 Finns are top referers, of which one, really made a remarkable effort ...

So you are absolutely right if you say "WE" don't need a different culture, since it is exactly yours I am promoting ...

I can only say
Siinä on oikea asenne! (There's the right attitude!)

Misunderstandings sometimes rise, because not all countries in Europe undestand eachothers culture to the full extent. But that's the whole beauty of Europe, and that's also what makes the EU-project so interesting, that's also what makes the Euro to something special, hence, this is actually why I am EBT-er

(having some fun meanwhile )

[Craft]

[Craft]

[Skylimit]

so I haven't personally seen the benefits of it in action.

Thats the message to this forum :
a) do not break down an idea, if you never tried it out.
b) Do not make assumptions without data.
c) If you're not interested, say it once, and then stay away.
d) Do not publicly lynch Newbie's, it's kinda discouraging
e) if nobody's interested, at least give the guy/girl who had the idea the tools, to make his point -> what I mean is, I have no possibility to proove my point, because I cannot even browse my own tree, let alone, someone elses ... webmaster could try it out, because after all, he has full access to the whole database. A couple of SQL's, send some txt files to excel, make aggregations -> tell me what you see

[Craft]

[Skylimit]

And regretting ever having participated in this discussion. )

[emmem]

And regretting ever having participated in this discussion.

I, on the other hand, am glad you did participate. You made some remarkable observations I must say.

There are currently over 5700 registered users, but when you look at the lists, only 38 of them have input 1000 notes or more. That's under 0,7% of all users. 453 registered users have input 100 notes or more, which is about 8% of all users. This means that a vast majority of 92% of registered users have input less than 100 notes at the moment.

So I think this shows that most users only have access to a limited amount of notes, mostly the ones they have in their wallets at any particular time, and bother to input them at EBT. Considering this, I think it is rather absurd to suppose that a lot of users would suddenly get interested in competition over inputting more notes than others, let alone winning the race, when the winners are now so far away. The arrowhead (the number of users who really compete in inputting masses of notes) is extremely narrow, and let them compete while the majority of users just keep inputting a few notes every now and then.

This also indicates that only a small amount of users is could be into really competing. Some of those competing users will be cheating. But since the group is small and an even smaller portion cheats, the percentage of cheaters will be very low.

And while I’m at it, I collected some nice statistics starting from the idea of those observations.

Code: Select all

#notes eq or greater	% of users
5000 						0,03%
2000 						0,33%
1000 						0,68%
500  						1,70%
200  						4,18%
100  						7,92%
50  						13,48%
20  						23,35%
10  						32,74%
5   						44,82%
2   						67,90%
1   						84,55%
0  						100,00%

[Skylimit]

This also indicates that only a small amount of users is could be into really competing. Some of those competing users will be cheating.

It's not about being number one. The results of this "competition" need not be published on the homepage. It is all about techniques of making EBT grow, through recruiting new users in a natural way (by sending a friendly mail to a long lost friend, for instance)

The Rank is a way of EBT for saying "thank you" to the user who bothered to register other users, which may in turn bring in others ... The technique of referral exists. I'm very fond of it. There is no change in culture, or homepage, or competition ... but right now, nobody has a clue what referral is worth (sorry to note that) If we were to discover this technique pays of in terms of new real EBT-ers, the we could encourage it,
or leave it as it as, but say "thank you" to valuable users is some way.

Although, I cannot verify it, I think the Finns grew stronger in real EBT-users (meaning, users that have the profile we are looking for, meaning, users who are not really competing for the number one spot, but form a great river anyway)

But like I said yesterday, or was it today, or tonight ? I keep on repeating myself, and if I eventually drop out of the thread I started myself, it is not because I gave up the idea, but maybe hope,
someone verifies the assumption, so we have some real data ...
Facts.

If you were to find that even the Finns did not use this technique to a level that is significantly different from other countries, however, this would not mean that referral is worthless. But could indicate that coverage in the media is more important

Thank you for your input, emmem
But you are prooving here that little users compete for the number one spot, and I don't think referral is about being number one.

[emmem]

Thank you for your input, emmem
But you are proving here that little users compete for the number one spot, and I don't think referral is about being number one.

I agree with the fact that referral is not about being number one. My opinion is that to EBT, referral is only a way to track the channel trough which new users are getting to this site. It gives an indication how many users are brought in directly by other users.

But it’s only an indication. Some users will get to EBT with a referral link. Keep the site in mind and the come back later to register. There’s at least one such user. I know it… it’s me. I came across this site via a referred link. But I registered only some days later. I don’t know if I using a bookmark or not. Anyway, I can’t see if I used the link with my referrer in it or that I just type the URL and then registered.

My point is that the referrer system has a flaw because some users who in reality where referred to EBT are not registered that way.

Another thing is that I see your concept of trees as something that will take up many resources to implement and resources to execute afterwards. I haven’t thought deeply about this so there’s a possibility I might be mistaken, but at first sight it looks that way to me.

On the other hand your tree concept has awoken some curiosity in me. I am wondering now about tree statistics. How many users have referred users with not further referring. How many 2 steps, 3 steps… referrals. What is the average time between registering to the site and having a referred user.

[Skylimit]

Some users will get to EBT with a referral link. Keep the site in mind and the come back later to register. There’s at least one such user. I know it… it’s me.

You're right, I have 3 users of which I know registered because they mailed me they did. I know their user name, and it's not in my tree.

Either, they only cut & paste the first part of the string, which is what I always do : there's no point in skipping the homepage, so I only paste what I think is the homepage. In that case, I must say, registering through a banner works better ... (Not in that stage yet, but I will be soon, I hope)

Many others, visited, thought it was cool, and mailed me about it, but did not register. Like you say, they may come back some day and register ... but not through your referral (unless they forgot how our name is - eurobilltracker is not so easy to remember)

That' what I say, I also don't really care about being number one in this, because sometimes you trick a user in here you don't know, and other times, those you do not are not on your list.

Statistics : I've been a member for a very short period now, and must say it is much harder than I thought to refer a REAL user to the site, who keeps coming back, and tells others about it

Hence, the challenge, and I also think it should be rewarded in some way.

Thanks for the feedback

[Guest]

still regretting Craft dropped out of this thread, though

[Skylimit]

still regretting Craft dropped out of this thread, though

That was me, and I mean it