Nerzhul wrote:The code and design? Texts? A mess, lawyers would be happy
Ever since Ph. left the project in 2003 the code and techniques behind the site were vastly extended, improved and redesigned. Features like the improved statistics, rankings, filters, more settings, city + country profiles, new city data structures, extended forms for entering notes, search engine, administrative tools to deal with abuse, welcome tour for new users, auto-hit moderation and countless other little things were designed and implemented by me. I (legally) own this code, yet I can still see it used by Philippe.
Well, this is a snapshot of eurobilltracker.com taken on Dec 29th 2003, at a time Giro was not really involved anymore, if I understand that correctly.
...judge yourself, you know what the site looks like now.
capitobi wrote:Well, this is a snapshot of eurobilltracker.com taken on Dec 29th 2003, at a time Giro was not really involved anymore, if I understand that correctly.
...judge yourself, you know what the site looks like now.
In all fairness, that snapshot is just a result of EBT serving out a more "traditional" HTML (and much uglier) version of the page to unknown user agents, such as archive.org's robot. In practise, the new layout was already in use on that date.
EBT looked something like this as early as 2002-06-13 or thereabouts.
Money makes the world go round. We track how the money goes round the world.
capitobi wrote:Well, this is a snapshot of eurobilltracker.com taken on Dec 29th 2003, at a time Giro was not really involved anymore, if I understand that correctly.
...judge yourself, you know what the site looks like now.
In all fairness, that snapshot is just a result of EBT serving out a more "traditional" HTML (and much uglier) version of the page to unknown user agents, such as archive.org's robot. In practise, the new layout was already in use on that date.
EBT looked something like this as early as 2002-06-13 or thereabouts.
Ok, sorry. That was what I found in the internet-archive.
a) the site maintenaince?
b) his own pocket?
c) or just to raise money and help a given charity institution?
If a), ok with me..Avij (and others?) has made an huge effort to keep this thing running month after month (thank you!)
If b), that's legitime, he created the site, but don't count with my participation, it's to late for that kind of action, the site isn't his property anymore, it belongs to the community. If he forces his dot com, he will end up running an empty site, that's just a prediction..
If c), the man is a visionaire, count me in
All that is a real shame, to me Giro, Avij, Nerzhul, they all share some responsability in this mess.
As a veteran (user #127 ), I strongly express my anger and disappointment about what's happening, and I won't enter any note on any site before everything is solved, so maybe never.
Yannn wrote:All that is a real shame, to me Giro, Avij, Nerzhul, they all share some responsability in this mess.
As a veteran (user #127 ), I strongly express my anger and disappointment about what's happening, and I won't enter any note on any site before everything is solved, so maybe never.
same for me here..
I will write down numbers and data, but enter them when this situation is solved.
Yannn wrote:All that is a real shame, to me Giro, Avij, Nerzhul, they all share some responsability in this mess.
As a veteran (user #127 ), I strongly express my anger and disappointment about what's happening, and I won't enter any note on any site before everything is solved, so maybe never.
same for me here..
I will write down numbers and data, but enter them when this situation is solved.
For me the situation is allready solved!
Yesterday I register my bills at .eu and .com and today my IP has being denied and I can't enter at .com, so I think that giro banned me.
Since when any person were banned to the EBT project? In the past we saw thousands of fakers entering bills and no one were banned.
People, I dont agree with your hesitations, really! We're all comunicating in the .eu's forum, can't you see? We belong to this community.
a) the site maintenaince?
b) his own pocket?
c) or just to raise money and help a given charity institution?
If a), ok with me..Avij (and others?) has made an huge effort to keep this thing running month after month (thank you!)
If b), that's legitime, he created the site, but don't count with my participation, it's to late for that kind of action, the site isn't his property anymore, it belongs to the community. If he forces his dot com, he will end up running an empty site, that's just a prediction..
If c), the man is a visionaire, count me in
Well, dinner time, those are just my thoughts
This quote should yield an answer to your question:
To mention, avij himself has declared that he doesn't want to get such money for hosting the site. Therefore, it's not okay doing this in order to give him money.
This also shows that Giro doesn't understand at all how EBT works. Why pay Nerzhul for his work, but not pay the other EBT workers? How on earth could Nerzhul accept that?
Actually, I'm surprised that some people are hesitating about the .eu version. Of course, it would be best if Giro, Avij and Nerzhul come to an agreement, but looking at the news from both sites, it doesn't seem very likely. Giro just locked Avij and Nerzhul out, and when little users switch to ebt.eu, there will be no reason for him to merge the two sites again.
If I've correctly understood Nerzhul's announcement, the situation is as follows: the old webmaster, who is not active anymore on EBT, secretly copied the database to his own server and made the .com domain refer to this copy. As the original version of the project is still on ebt.eu, it seems logical to me to continue using this.
Giro has apparently decided to make money with his site, whether the community wants it or not. He clearly does not want it only to pay the hosting and maintenance, as Avij is currently paying that. Of course, there are now no banners yet on his version (all users would see then that ebt.eu is the original, non-commercial version), but his intentions are clear. I think banners would give new users a negative image of EBT and are annoying, especially when the profits go to someone who is not even active on the site, just a reward for "being the owner". Besides, advertising on forums for a commercial EBT is more likely to be seen as spam.
Giro is also "moderating" his version of EBT in a very aggressive way, to prevent people from even knowing about the dispute. People have been banned, the link to the forum has been deleted, each indication about ebt.eu and the location of the forum is removed, and he is spreading false news on his site (e.g. that Avij and/or Nerzhul are encouraging defacing his site).
Finally, I think it wouldn't even be possible to use the ebt.com domain in the long term, as (almost?) all volunteers have moved to ebt.eu. Without support or hit moderation, there will be more and more incorrect data in the database. Personally, I would rather have 1 real hit than 10 possibly fake hits.
Maybe I've missed something, but currently I can see no reason not to use the new domain of the old site. I hope most users will just continue entering their notes on the new domain, until a reasonable agreement has been reached (if ever).
I'd like to ask our moderators and administrators (avij and Nerzhul) if they, in fact, talked with giro and if he asked for some money.
If so, how much did/does he wants?
Couldn't all the people that have contributed to translating the site tell Giro they don't want him to use the translations for commercial purposes, and ask him to remove all versions but the English one?
I'm probably being naive, but still....
Money in hand, that´s buying / Penger i hånden, det er kjøp --- Erlend Loe
It could work, but it wouldn't be a good idea. It might make Giro needlessly angry and he could reataliate with some similar request. And then we would have zero EBTs instead of two EBTs. And two is better than zero. For both Giro and us.
It's a bit like an atomic threat. If one uses his, then it's all over for both.
what's this shit ????
EBT is a game
Giro, Avij, Nerzhul and many others people make this game true and we want only one EBT website.
Please stop fighting like kids
EBTusers are trapped... where's the pleasure now ??
The matter is money ?
Giro wants add for is own profit ? or only for keeping EBT alive ?
all EBTusers want answers
it's possible to keep the website alive with a contribution from top users and addictive ones (like me)
Please, in the name off all the french community, stop this stupid war
EBT IS A GAME, A PLEASURE...
(and we want clear communications from Giro and Avij/Nerzhul)
), I strongly express my anger and disappointment about what's happening, and I won't enter any note on any site before everything is solved, so maybe never.
: 1