Incorrect dots and inaccuracies among city profiles

Gauss · Post by **Gauss** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:52 pm

Considering the immense diversity of administrative/political, customary, and postal divisions in Europe, varying from country to country and in some cases even from region to region - I doubt that a general and practicable policy could be found.

Germany seems to be the most complex case; initially a stunning 48% of all city profiles were from Germany. To some extent this high number is due to the conversion and to a habit of taking care in advance of German specialties like ä <-> ae (and not a, which could have been treated the same way as é / è / e), and the varieties of abbreviations (Frankfurt am Main, Frankfurt/Main, Frankfurt (Main), Frankfurt a. Main, Frankfurt a.M., Frankfurt a. M. (one more blank), etc.). However, it appears that the approach of filling the location field in maximal detail is far more common in Germany than anywhere else.

Let me ask the question like this. Would the term "city" be appropriate for the place named Asemissen?
Entering as location Leopoldshöhe (Asemissen) could be interpreted in the sense that the user intends to register the note in Leopoldshöhe, but wishes to point out vehemently (if not vehemently, he'd use the comment field) that it was in Asemissen and not in the main center of Leopoldshöhe.

It is my hope that we will not need to go through a painful process like the one that lead to the naming conventions of Wikipedia which fill - just in the english version - three large webpages: page 1, page 2, page 3.

Mullams · Post by **Mullams** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:02 pm

Gauss wrote:Ullgive, please review your list yourself. A lot of the items on your list have been done already - it's been a week of very busy nights -, and it seems infeasible to check each item on your list whether or not it needs still (or again) attention. All profile numbers have changed since the Beta test anyway.

Will do, just be patient

Smike · Post by **Smike** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:02 pm

Obviously the most annoying dutch city is Nesselande which is a part of Rotterdam.

Another small mistake is Sint-Annaland which should be written as Sint Annaland.

Smike · Post by **Smike** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:13 pm

€€F · Post by **€€F** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:25 pm

City-Rank - Old Town - notes - should be new town name
947 - vlaardingen - 66 - Vlaardingen
755 - 9727 - 130 - Groningen
1295 - Aalst (gld) - 24 - Aalst
818 - Alhpen aan den rijn - 98 - Alphen aan den Rijn
1466 - Ammrezoden - 15 - Ammerzoden
1355 - Amsterdam bijlmer - 21 - Amsterdam
990 - Amsterdam cs - 58 - Amsterdam
613 - Amsterdam Zuidoost - 241 - Amsterdam
1496 - Amterdam - 14 - Amsterdam
1333 - Arnhem elderveld - 22 - Arnhem
1334 - Arnhem kronenburg - 22 - Arnhem
847 - Baarlo (lb) - 91 - Baarlo
1497 - Barendrecht1 - 14 - Barendrecht
1337 - Bergen aan zee - 22 - Bergen (Noord-Holland)
1470 - Bloemendaal aan zee - 15 - Bloemendaal
1409 - Boakoop - 18 - Boskoop
1387 - Booskoop - 19 - Boskoop
1471 - Boskopp - 15 - Boskoop
1280 - Bovenkarsel - 25 - Bovenkarspel
1410 - Brouwershave - 18 - Brouwershaven
1438 - Budel dorplein - 16 - Budel
1143 - Budel schoot - 37 - Budel
1144 - Bunschoten spakenburg - 37 - Bunschoten
909 - Cadzand bad - 75 - Cadzand
1439 - Callatsoog - 16 - Callantsoog
868 - Cranendonck - 85 - Cranendonk
915 - De bult (steenwijk) - 74 - De bult
849 - De bult (steenwijkerland) - 91 - De bult
1419 - De koog (texel) - 17 - De koog
1170 - Den burg, texel - 34 - Den burg
1017 - Den hoorn zh - 54 - Den hoorn
895 - Driebergen rijsenburg - 78 - Driebergen
1100 - Ede (gld) - 41 - Ede
555 - Ede gld - 329 - Ede
344 - Eelde paterswolde - 986 - Paterswolde
1317 - Emmer compascuum - 23 - Emmercompascuum
1112 - Goor, overijssel - 40 - Goor
1447 - Gorcum - 16 - Gorinchem
1448 - Gorichem - 16 - Gorinchem
1281 - Goude - 25 - Gouda
1018 - Groningen/noordwijk - 54 - Groningen
1212 - H.i.ambacht - 30 - Hendrik-Ido-Ambacht
485 - Hardinxveld - 435 - Hardinxveld-Giessendam
302 - Hardinxveld giessendam - 1250 - Hardinxveld-Giessendam
412 - Hazerswoude dorp - 655 - Hazerswoude
897 - Hazerswoude rijndijk - 78 - Hazerswoude
1222 - Heeswijk - 29 - Heeswijk dinther
1034 - Hendrik - 51 - Hendrik-Ido-Ambacht
615 - Hengelo (ov) - 237 - Hengelo
1301 - Hengelo gld. - 24 - Hengelo (gld)
1475 - Hengelo o - 15 - Hengelo
725 - Hengelo ov - 142 - Hengelo
487 - Heusden nb. - 434 - Heusden
1035 - Hiversum - 51 - Hilversum
1449 - Hofddorp - 16 - Hoofddorp
150 - Hoogvliet rt - 3977 - Hoogvliet
403 - Hoogvliet-rt. - 686 - Hoogvliet
1251 - Hoorn (n-h) - 27 - Hoorn
823 - Hoorn nh - 97 - Hoorn
1302 - Ijselstein - 24 - Ijsselstein
689 - Katwijk aan zee - 161 - Katwijk
1284 - Koog a/d zaan - 25 - Koog aan de zaan
1424 - Koog aan zaan - 17 - Koog aan de zaan
1394 - Koudekerk a/d rijn - 19 - Koudekerk
1025 - Koudekerk aan den rijn - 53 - Koudekerk
1036 - Laren nh - 51 - Laren
1396 - Leiderdopr - 19 - Leiderdorp
1285 - Leiderdpro - 25 - Leiderdorp
828 - Leidschendam-voorburg - 96 - Leidschendam
680 - Lies (terschelling) - 167 - Lies
859 - Luchthaven schiphol - 88 - Schiphol
870 - Maasticht - 85 - Maastricht
1305 - Maastricht airport - 24 - Maastricht
800 - Maria heide - 107 - Mariaheide
1427 - Meleick - 17 - Melick
700 - Midden beemster - 154 - Middenbeemster
1377 - Moedijk - 20 - Moerdijk
1262 - Moerdjk - 26 - Moerdijk
1482 - Naarden bussum - 15 - Naarden
1134 - Nes, ameland - 38 - Nes
1288 - Nieuwerkerk - 25 - Nieuwerkerk aan den IJssel
1135 - Nieuwkuyk - 38 - Nieuwkuijk
1226 - Nieuw-lekkrland - 29 - Nieuw-Lekkerland
1325 - Noordwijk aan zee - 23 - Noordwijk
1290 - Oegstgeests - 25 - Oegstgeest
949 - Ooserhout - 66 - Oosterhout
1115 - Oost-Souburg - 40 - Oost souburg
1267 - Oud beyerland - 26 - Oud beijerland
497 - Oudenbosch nederland - 418 - Oudenbosch
1124 - Oudorp (nh) - 39 - Oudorp
1484 - Pijnacker nootdorp - 15 - Pijnacker
945 - Posterholt bij roermond - 67 - Posterholt
1361 - Purmerende - 21 - Purmerend
1345 - R00sendaal - 22 - Roosendaal
819 - Raamsdonkveer - 98 - Raamsdonksveer
1381 - Rijswijk (zh) - 20 - Rijswijk
436 - Rijswijk zh - 566 - Rijswijk
1485 - Roemond - 15 - Roermond
970 - Roosendal - 62 - Roosendaal
1240 - Rotterdam europoort - 28 - Rotterdam
1329 - Rotterdam hoogvliet - 23 - Hoogvliet
688 - Rozenburg (zh) - 162 - Rozenburg
1046 - Rozenburg zh - 49 - Rozenburg
663 - Santpoort noord - 184 - Santpoort
933 - Santpoort zuid - 70 - Santpoort
1415 - Schevenigen - 18 - Scheveningen
699 - Schiphol airport - 155 - Schiphol
753 - Schiphol rijk - 131 - Schiphol
1405 - Shiermonnikoog - 19 - Schiermonnikoog
404 - Spykenisse - 683 - Spijkenisse
478 - Steenbergen (nb) - 464 - Steenbergen
1382 - Steewijk - 20 - Steenwijk
1167 - Stein(lb) - 35 - Stein
1406 - T harde - 19 - t harde
1331 - Terheyden - 23 - Terheijden
1430 - Terschelling west - 17 - Terschelling
1431 - Utecht - 17 - Utrecht
712 - Valkenburg aan de geul - 149 - Valkenburg
1416 - Veenedaal - 18 - Veenendaal
1098 - Veenendaaal - 42 - Veenendaal
336 - Velsen noord - 1029 - Velsen
1275 - Velsen zuid - 26 - Velsen
1332 - Velzen-zuid - 23 - Velsen
1157 - Vlisingen - 36 - Vlissingen
1010 - Voorbschoten - 56 - Voorschoten
1462 - Werverhoof - 16 - Wervershoof
529 - Workum (fr) - 372 - Workum
1490 - Zeist, utrecht - 15 - Zeist
1384 - Zevenbergche hoek - 20 - Zevenbergschen hoek
1033 - Zevenbergenschen hoek - 52 - Zevenbergschen hoek
1365 - Zoeterwoude rijndijk - 21 - Zoeterwoude
1022 - Zoeterwoude/rijndijk - 54 - Zoeterwoude
1059 - Zuid oost beemster - 47 - Zuidoostbeemster
867 - Zuthpen - 86 - Zutphen
421 - Zwaagwesteinde (frl) - 631 - Zwaagwesteinde
1354 - Zwijndecht - 22 - Zwijndrecht
- - -
- - -
ALSO : - - -
- - -
- - -
1067 - \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ - 46 - Is not a Town Name
1370 - Cu - 20 - Is not a Town Name
1412 - De - 18 - Is not a Town Name
1264 - Netherlands - 26 - Is not a Town Name
1324 - Noordoostpolder - 23 - Is not a Town Name
1310 - Onbekende stad - 24 - Is not a Town Name
1044 - R - 49 - Is not a Town Name
1227 - Randstad - 29 - Is not a Town Name
1106 - Zw - 41 - Is not a Town Name
1062 - Friesland - 46 - Is Province , not a Town
- - -
1467 - Arras - 15 - Is in France
1003 - Le bugue - 56 - Is in France
1457 - Parijs - 16 - Is in France
718 - Val thorens - 147 - Is in France
- - -
728 - Alicante sp - 140 - Is in Spain
1411 - Calafell - 18 - Is in Spain
1218 - Cambrils - 29 - Is in Spain
1182 - Fuertaventura - 33 - Is in Spain
1215 - Mallorca sp - 30 - Is in Spain
829 - Playa de las americas tenerife - 96 - Is in Spain
1139 - Salou sp - 38 - Is in Spain
1140 - Santa pola sp - 38 - Is in Spain

Worked through the list of first 1500 cities in Holland..

yli · Post by **yli** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:28 pm

There are some mistakes in that list :

Budel-Dorplein, Budel-Schoot and Budel are three different villages.

Cranendonck (and not Cranendonk) is a name of a municipality, not a location (villages Budel, Budel-Dorplein, Budel-Schoot, Gastel, Maarheeze or Soerendonk)

Driebergen Rijsenburg is the official name for what is commonly known as Driebergen

Hazerswoude doesn't exist.... Hazerswoude Dorp and Hazerswoude Rijndijk do.

Heeswijk-Dinther are two separate villages, Heeswijk and Dinther

Katwijk are two separate villages, Katwijk aan Zee and Katwijk aan den Rijn.

Koudekerk aan den Rijn (prov. Zuid-Holland, mun. Rijnwoude) is something different dan Koudekerk (prov. Zeeland, mun. Veere). Although you should check the postal codes, I am afraid a lot of people just didn't mentioned the "aan den Rijn" part

Noordwijk are two separate villages, Noordwijk aan Zee and Noordwijk-Binnen

Velsen is the name of a municipality, containing the two villages Velsen-Noord and Velsen-Zuid

Zoeterwoude is the name of a municipality, containing the two villages Zoeterwoude-Dorp and Zoeterwoude-Rijndijk

The list of postcode.nl isn't totally good. They mention postal codes as "Hazerswoude" or "Heeswijk-Dinther" - but the signs outside these villages aren't. In fact a lot of small villages aren't mentioned by postcode.nl

Smike · Post by **Smike** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:12 pm

And for some splitting up, there are three Hoorns in the Netherlands:

Hoorn, municipality of Hoorn, province of Noord-Holland (postal codes 1620-1629)
Hoorn, municipality of Heerde, province of Gelderland (postal code 8181)
Hoorn, municapilty of Terschelling, province of Friesland (postal code 8896)

I don't know if someone entered notes from Hoorn in Gelderland, but I'm very sure the other two are in the database and still counted as one city.

For a map, look here.

peter_at · Post by **peter_at** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:38 pm

Gauss wrote:.
Let me ask the question like this. Would the term "city" be appropriate for the place named Asemissen?
Entering as location Leopoldshöhe (Asemissen) could be interpreted in the sense that the user intends to register the note in Leopoldshöhe, but wishes to point out vehemently (if not vehemently, he'd use the comment field) that it was in Asemissen and not in the main center of Leopoldshöhe.

In Austrian terms, I would call both Asemissen and Leopoldshöhe villages that are part of the municipality Leopoldshöhe. But it seems that the Germans (officialy) prefer to call them part of a village ("Ortsteil"). These villages are far from having grown together, in fact they are seperated by a strip of fields and woods that is several kilometers wide, and Asemissen seems to be much closer to Bielefeld then to Leopoldshöhe. According to their homepage, "Ortsteil Leopoldshöhe" has 4.162 inhabitants, "Ortsteil Asemissen" has 3.683 inhabitants, the municipality itself has 17.322 inhabitants, so they are far from what I would call a city, but if one uses quotes, it might be justified to call both of them "city". Anyway, I think in most countries users tend to insert the names of much smaller hamlets into the "city" field.

Licht & Feuer · Post by **Licht & Feuer** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:18 pm

Gauss wrote:Let me ask the question like this. Would the term "city" be appropriate for the place named Asemissen?
Entering as location Leopoldshöhe (Asemissen) could be interpreted in the sense that the user intends to register the note in Leopoldshöhe, but wishes to point out vehemently (if not vehemently, he'd use the comment field) that it was in Asemissen and not in the main center of Leopoldshöhe.

In my very first time at EBT I wasn't sure about how to specify the place where I got the note as correct as possible and thought that the administrative center must be part of it.
Since I found out that Asemissen itself was in the database already before my time at EBT, I enter all notes I receive there simply under Asemissen which is certainly no city but Leopoldshöhe isn't, too - it's just the village where they build the bureau to handle the administrative stuff for the other villages around.
I live in a very rural region where a few municipalities covering large areals but having just one postal code.
So a hit between "Village A" and "Village B" in municipality "Smalltown C" would be a hit over several kms while it's not sure that these bill ever was in Smalltown C - forcing such a possible case into a 0km hit within Smalltown C wouldn't refelect the notes journey ...but I guess that is what we want to do at EBT

This is certainly no problem in "real" cities where nearly every street has it's own postcode but here it is and I like to track real places not just virtual units.

Gauss wrote:It is my hope that we will not need to go through a painful process like the one that lead to the naming conventions of Wikipedia which fill - just in the english version - three large webpages: page 1, page 2, page 3.

Don't worry, I just want to know how you want to organize the profiles (synonyms only or political units in general) to send you my list with places to combine.
I just hope that it will still be possible to enter notes, received in small villages under the real name of that place because it's a lot of fun to "conquer" these rare places, anyway if the note report is linked to a "Whole municipality-profile" or not.
Regarding the cases like the Leopoldshöhe (asemissen)-profile I would prefer to change the location of these notes (which are all mine) to Asemissen so that wired profiles like this can be completely been deleted but it's up to you to say how you want to organize the database.

androl · Post by **androl** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:22 pm

Gauss wrote:Let me ask the question like this. Would the term "city" be appropriate for the place named Asemissen?

let me ask back: what is a city?
Wikipedia translates city with "Großstadt", which is a place with over 100000 inhabitants. So should he enter all his notes in Bielefeld? Should I enter all my notes only in Ulm, Stuttgart, Augsburg, München? Surely not

Gauss wrote:It is my hope that we will not need to go through a painful process like the one that lead to the naming conventions of Wikipedia

unfortunately, the people at Wikipedia and the ones at EuroBillTracker are not very different, meaning, there are always people who have different perceptions of what the name of a place has to be, and what is a relevant place and what not.

Gauss wrote:
androl wrote:would it be possible that all (new) locations with the same postcode (as existing locations) are automatically assigned to the same city, with a list of exceptions where different communes have the same postcode (or for new locations only if there is exactly one city with the same postcode...?
...what do you do if some guy from, say, 3362RL Sliedrecht goes on holiday and continues to enter all notes with his home postal code 3362RL, no matter where he goes? Assign all new places he discovers to Sliedrecht?

so what to do with such entries? There's also the opposite case, where users don't know that a place does not belong to a bigger city in the neighbourhood, so I also would put the entry "78476 Konstanz" to "78476 Reichenau", which I did in my big list above.

Petri6 · Post by **Petri6** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:23 pm

Finnish municipalities:

Hammaslahti is a part of Pyhäselkä
Ylämylly is a part of Liperi
Kello is a part of haukipudas
Kalanti is a part of Uusikaupunki
Kiihtelysvaara is a part of Joensuu
Lokalahti is a part of Uusikaupunki
Lieto as is a part of Lieto
Linnavuori is a part of Nokia
Loimaa kk is a part of Loimaa
Helsinki-Vantaan lentoasema is a part of Vantaa
Tukru is a misspelled Turku

€€F · Post by **€€F** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:28 pm

@yli..

thns for the co-operation..

looking @ postal codes will tel the rest of the info I guess..

androl · Post by **androl** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:17 am

Economist · Post by **Economist** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:53 am

The city profiles of

Meissen and

Meißen should be merged (while the proper spelling is the one with ß (although that means I am entering wrong)).

By the way, the dots in both the city profiles (see above) are wrong while the dots for notes entered in this city, like this one, are correct.

Thanks for all your work!

yli · Post by **yli** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:17 am

Here some more examples of smaller countries:
.... and a start with Luxembourg - but I need more time to investigate this country

* Multiple and strange locations

Sophia must be Sofia (also known as София)

(question mark) ... strange location (don't know what to do with it)

Somewhere in the bulgarian airspace ... haha, that could be anywhere (don't know what to do with it)

Golden sands/goldstrand is a bit strange Bulgarian name (but it's correct - according to the language you use) Zlatni pyasatsi (Златни пясъци) is the Bulgarian name. But I think it doesn't make sence to give this (1 bill location) in every language a different name.

Ulanbataar is the same as Ulanbaataar (both spellings are incorrect - it's Ulaanbaatar or Улаанбаатар)

Antalya-lara (I don't know what -lara is) and Antalija and Antalia are all Antalya

Antalya-Side is either Antalya or Side

Istambul is Istanbul

Belek (Antalya) looks the same as Belek

Pamukkalle and Pamukalle are both Pamukkale (total of these 3 locations just 4 notes)

Lefkoºa (must be Lefkoşa) is not in Turkey, but in

Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. Oops, this country is only recognized by Turkey - so, the Turkish flag might be the best sollution

. It's not my goal to start this kind of discussion again... but I was just taking a look at the Turkish locations.

07050 and 07400 and 07600 looks like postal codes. Maybe they can merge with prober location names.

Dalaman (flight) could be the airport of Dalaman ??

Bodrum gumbet is the same as Bodrum ?? (I don't know what gumbet is in Turkish)

Pekin and Peking are both Beijing

Pristina is the same as

Pristina (although both were in fact correct....just like nowadays

Pristina might be possible)

A lot of different profiles for f.e. The city of Luxembourg (as its French name; sometimes Luxemburg as its German name; in Luxembourgish: Lëtzebuerg)

ranking name nr. of notes

1 Luxembourg 7.452 notes
10 Lux.-ville 349 notes
15 Lux.-gare 258 notes (gare is station in french)
56 Luxemburg stad 28 notes
61 Luxembourg city 22 notes
86 Luxembourg ville 10 notes
92 Lux.-Hollerich 9 notes
100 Lëtzebuerg 7 notes (well, that Luxembourg in the local language)
110 Lux.-cents 5 notes
111 Luxemborug 5 notes
112 Luxembourg aéroport 5 notes (although that could be out of the city)
113 Luxmbourg 5 notes
127 Luxenbourg 4 notes
136 Luxemburgh 3 notes
167 Lux.-kirchberg 2 notes
168 Lux.-ville (schueberfouer) 2 notes
169 Luxembourg - pulvermuehl 2 notes
201 Lux 1 note
202 Luxembour 1 note
203 Luxemburgo 1 note
204 Luxemnourg

Luyksgestel isn't in Luxemburg, but is the same as

Luyksgestel

* one location profile, but they are different (from my own bill-collection)

Afferden are

5850-5851 Afferden (prov. Limburg, mun. Bergen) and

6654 Afferden (prov. Gelderland, mun. Druten)

Bavel is one village, but in two municipalities.

4854 Bavel (prov. Noord-Brabant, mun. Breda) is the main Bavel... but there is also

4859 Bavel (prov. Noord-Brabant, mun. Alphen-Chaam) what is not more than a few farms. If these will be divided, please call them Bavel and Bavel (mun. Alphen-Chaam)
Also the village Ulvenhout is in mun. Breda (4850-4851) and mun. Alphen-Chaam (4858), but I only got notes from the much bigger Ulvenhout mun. Breda. Also here, call them Ulvenhout and Ulvenhout (mun. Alphen-Chaam)

* spelling of locations

Kiev should be Kyiv (Київ)

Lviv should be L’viv (Львів) although Lviv is also used

Odessa should be Odesa (Одеса)

Incorrect dots and inaccuracies among city profiles

Re: Incorrect dots and inaccuracies among city profiles