how to count in Your Language?

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androl
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Post by androl »

Dakkus wrote:For example here's the Finnish one
1 ... 5 ... 10 = one ... five ... ten
11 ... 15 ... 19 = oneOfSecond ... FiveOfSecond ... NineOfSecond
you forgot the meaning of
8 = kahdeksan
9 = yhdeksan
as much as I know, kahte- and yhte- are the stem forms of kaksi (2) and yksi (1) (with consonant change t->d), so what does the -ksan say?
Craft wrote:12 dvennádtsat: literally two-over-ten
...

50 pjatdesját
60 shestdesját
70 sjémdesjat
80 vósjemdesjat

500 pjatsót
...
900 devjatsót
from my few Russian lessons I remember that the 4/5/6/7/8/9 numbers often have strangely different stresses, like 60 on the last and 70 on the first syllable. I don't remember 17, is it sjémnadtsat or sjemnádtsat? What is 600 and 700?
600 = shestsót?
700 = sjémsot?

so what do you think is the reason for these different stresses? Are pjat and shest generally less prominent words/syllables and does sjem have anything that makes it more easily be stressed in a longer word?
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Post by Divine »

androl wrote:
Dakkus wrote:For example here's the Finnish one
1 ... 5 ... 10 = one ... five ... ten
11 ... 15 ... 19 = oneOfSecond ... FiveOfSecond ... NineOfSecond
you forgot the meaning of
8 = kahdeksan
9 = yhdeksan
as much as I know, kahte- and yhte- are the stem forms of kaksi (2) and yksi (1) (with consonant change t->d)
That is correct. The t/d -change depends on which case should be used. However...
so what does the -ksan say?
That, AFAIK, doesn't mean anything. The stem forms of kahdeksan and yhdeksän are kahdeksa- and yhdeksä-, after which you use the appropriate case. I don't know if there's connection between 1 & 9 and 2 & 8 in Finnish language. Interesting theory, and even if there might be one, I'm not aware of it.
Deliberately affecting the note circulation just because of EBT is like cheating in solitaire. :twisted:
Seteleiden liikuttelu vain EBT:n takia on vähän kuin huijaisi pasianssissa. :twisted:
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Shark
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Post by Shark »

I think yhdeksän comes from 10-1=9 (=IX)
and kahdeksan 10-2=8 (=VIII, but when change it to IIX you can see what I think)
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Post by Divine »

^ Good point. Now that you mentioned it, I actually think I might've heard of this theory earlier.
Deliberately affecting the note circulation just because of EBT is like cheating in solitaire. :twisted:
Seteleiden liikuttelu vain EBT:n takia on vähän kuin huijaisi pasianssissa. :twisted:
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Post by Craft »

androl wrote:from my few Russian lessons I remember that the 4/5/6/7/8/9 numbers often have strangely different stresses, like 60 on the last and 70 on the first syllable. I don't remember 17, is it sjémnadtsat or sjemnádtsat? What is 600 and 700?
600 = shestsót?
700 = sjémsot?

so what do you think is the reason for these different stresses? Are pjat and shest generally less prominent words/syllables and does sjem have anything that makes it more easily be stressed in a longer word?
For the last question: no! Unfortunately there are no rules for the stress in Russian. The only way is to remember the stress for each word (and this includes all the different forms of the word because when a word is deflected, the stress may change too). See the stresses here:

6: shést
7: sjém
8: vósjem (remember that this comes from sjem: vo-sjem)

16: shestnádtsat
17: sjemnádtsat
18: vosjemnádtsat

60: shestdesját
70: sjémdesjat
80: vósjemdesjat

600: shestsót
700: sjemsót
800: vosjemsót


As to the Finnish
8 = kahdeksan
9 = yhdeksän
there is a theory, that the 'dek' is the latin decem=ten, which has the form 'deka' in scientific texts (dekalitra = 10 litres) and hence the meanings would be
kah-deksan = 'kahta [vaille] dekasta' = two [missing] from ten,
yh-deksan = 'yhtä [vaille] dekasta' = one [missing] from ten.

But this theory is not necessarily correct. The origins of kahdeksan and yhdeksän are still officially unclear.

Edit: I also checked what a recent (2004) Finnish etymological dictionary says. There is the theory I mentioned above, but also another. The 'e' part in the two numerals could be the negative verb (Finnish 'ei' = no) and the rest would then be a deflective suffix of some sort: kahd-e-ksa-n, yhd-e-ksä-n'. The words would then mean 'kahta/yhtä ei ole [kymmenestä]'='two/one is not there [from ten]'.

This is also just a theory. BTW, the two numerals are rather or very similar in the other Fenno-Ugric languages. For instance the closely related Estonian: kaheksa, üheksa.
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Post by lazza »

Fjon wrote:
Viperazzi wrote:I thought the "fifteen hundred instead of one thousand five hundred" is the American style. Nevertheless, they definitely use it all the way from 1100 to 9900.
I don't know where it originates from, but it's used here and in the UK quite a lot. I would say it's only really used for 1300-1900 (not 1100 or 1200, or anything higher than 1900), and only for numbers ending in two zeros as hellogs pointed out.
I just came back from a trip with a US colleague, and noticed that he used the "hundred" notation for thousands for higher numbers - such as twenty three hundred for 2300. I also noticed that for numbers up to a thousand, he missed out the "and" that I would use (four hundred fifty three, rather than four hundred and fifty three, for example).
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Post by Asiamaniac »

Then let me add another Non-Euro-country language: INDONESIAN

1 = satu
2 = dua
3 = tiga
4 = empat
5 = lima
6 = enam (beginners like to mix it up with empat)
7 = tujuh
8 = delapan
9 = sembilan (I liked to mix it up with delapan)
10 = sepuluh (one-ten)

And now it gets weird; even my Indonesian sources cannot tell me what "belas" means; and even top-quality-dictionaries from that country do not help any further

"belas" is simply a number-word for the numbers from 11 - 19:

11 = sebelas (se- means "one" or "the same" when used in a combination
12 = duabelas
13 = tigabelas
etc.

20 = duapuluh (two - ten)
21 = duapuluhsatu (two - ten - one)
22 = duapuluhdua (two - ten - two)
etc.

30 = tigapuluh (three - ten)
31 = tigapuluhsatu (three - ten - one)

40 = empatpuluh (four - ten)
etc.

100 = seratus (one hundred)
101 = seratussatu (one hundred one)
102 = seratusdua (one hundred two)
111 = seratussebelas (one hundred one "belas")

200 = duaratus (two hundred)

1.000 = seribu (one thousand)
1.100 = seribuseratus (one thousand one hundred)
1.111 = seribu seratus sebelas

2.000 = duaribu (two thousand)
2.222 = duaribu duaratus duapuluh dua

100.000 = seratus ribu (one hundred thousand

1.000.000 = sejuta (one million)
2.000.000 = duajuta (two million)

1.000.000.000 = semilyar

From the little irregularities with "belas" for the numbers between 11 and 19 and the se- for one it is quite easy.

You have also noticed the similarity of the word for 2 - dua - with many other Indo-european languages?
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