European Union, Canada, Groenland and other territories

[Olivier]

here is my answer to Bossa Nova, about rhe EU, Canada and other territories.

<<<Yes sure!
Well as I said I don't know much about this, but I always felt that francophone culture is in danger in Canada, and that the independence of Quebec would prevent it's extinction.. maybe I have the wrong impression&#8230; >>

Well, the french language is not in danger but I agree with the people of Quebec who do the best to protect their language and culture.

I don't know if independance would prevent any extinction... Actually, the french language is officially the second language in all the Canada. The country is officially bilingual (even if this is very different in reality).
You know, there are not french speaking people only in Quebec but also in the other provinces: Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Ontario, New found land (Terre neuve)... and there are many people who speak english in Quebec.

When the Quebec had a referendum about its independance, the english speaking people were afraid to be obliged to move... I have friends in Quebec who feel the both cultures (english and french). Others who feel more french and are fed up with this feeling of being a minority in their own province...

Now, look at what Europe does: we are 15 countries, with 11 official languages. It's not so bad.

<<<Anyway, I'm always in favour of people's auto-determination, from West-Sahara to Basque Country, from Tchetchenia to East-Timor&#8230; or even Cabinda (Angola).

Be careful, all these territories don't have the same history, and are not in the same situation. The situation of the Basque is definitly not the same as in Tchechenia...

<<<And I like diversity, that's why I think it would be good to have a francophone country in North America. >>>

But I could answer the diversity is already there, in a bilingual country, close to the USA. Canada is more english than american, even though they have an american way of life.
Canada is as different from the USA than Belgium is different from France.

<<<When you say some people look to European Union like a model, it's like a model to imitate or like a model they would like to join? >>>

It's a model to imitate. Canada is in North America, not in Europe. We are very, very different. That's why I like to talk with my quebecan friends. We have much to discover.

<<<The idea is apparently nonsense , but if Turkey joins the EU, why not Canada?>>>
80% of the canadian trade comes from and goes to the USA...

<<< I remember a discussion on another forum, where a German guy suggested that we exchanged England (not Scotland or Walles) for Canada, since the population is similar, and Canadians are more European than English guys&#8230;lol >>>

But the Canadian don't want to be linked with Europe. Canada is in America. It's not the USA, the culture is a bit more european, but it's also a mix of the native-american culture, nordic culture (it can be very cold there), french speaking culture...

<<Why should European Union be limited to Europe? There are already lots of territories outside Europe that belongs to European Union, and even use the Euro! >>>

Yes, but these territories own to european metropoles. The french territories are not in the EU (Polynesia, New Caledonia..), the dutch west indies neither... Groenland was and had a referendum to go out of the EU.

<<Probably Greenland will join the euro, right? (they use the Danish Crown, right?) and Greenland it's practically North Canada&#8230; >>

Sharing a currency doesn't mean necessarily belonging to a unique country. Kosovo uses euro. There are countries in Africa which use the same Franc CFA, there are not in a homogenic area...

<<<But as I said I don't know much about this, and I've never been to Canada
It's a beautiful country!

[BossaNova]

just a quick answer before I'll go to sleep..

as I said I don't know much about all this, and didn't think much about it either, just some ideas that I'm having while studying to exams..

I agree and understand almost everything you said..

..as to the independence question, just to clarify that being in favor of independence doesn't mean being pro-terror... I know things are very different between Basque Country and Timor etc.. Palestine..

but the truth is that they never had a referendum..


but now I'm sleepy and I still have to study a lot.. my exam is next saturday... probably I won't came back here until then...

take care..

BN

[BossaNova]

PS: but do you really believe in an european lifestyle??

do you really think there's so much in common between us?

sometimes I wonder what can we portuguese have in common with finish or greek people, that we doesn't have with brazilians or angolans..

some times I really have some doubts if this is the right way for us all..


for instance, imagine this scenario, I'm a portuguese boy, and I get lost in Tokio (neutral territory), who do you think I would like to find an angolan or a icelandic or macedonian?? and you? (not only Olivier, you too)..

I think that an angolan guy would be hable to help me a lot more..

of course for many countries this questions don't make sense, like Finland for instance, but to countries like portugal, france, spain, uk, or holland I think this questions are very important..

what is most important, share the geography or the language, culture etc..

is there really an european feeling..?

just some doubts of a sleepy portuguese students that is really tired of trying to write in english, and that have to simplify a lot his thaughts.. so he can write it..

and just another thing I remember now, on the other day I heard on the radio that portugal is the only european country that doesn't have life sentences.. I got really shocked.. I always thaught that countries like Finland, Nederlands.. wouldn't also have that kind inhumane sentences.. this all about the new International Court .. because many people here think we shouldn't sign that agreement because that court can condemn people to life.. here the max is 25years, and I think is more than enough..

are we really the only ones with that laws..

I think that there isn't life sentences in any portuguese language country

[Olivier]

..as to the independence question, just to clarify that being in favor of independence doesn't mean being pro-terror... I know things are very different between Basque Country and Timor etc.. Palestine..
but the truth is that they never had a referendum..

Yes, it's true.
I wonder what would happen if the Basque country got its independance...

[Olivier]

PS: but do you really believe in an european lifestyle??
do you really think there's so much in common between us?

There are many differences between us, but there are also many differencies between a guy from Paris and a guy from Marseille, more differencies between a guy from Brest and a guy from Guadeloupe.

I see that we are not so different as soon as I am not in Europe.
When you are in Porto, Lisbon seams different. When you are in France,y you feel more portuguese. When you are in New York, you are European.

The people from the rest of the world simply don't make any difference between all these old countries.
For some of my friends in America, I am from the Old Continent.

sometimes I wonder what can we portuguese have in common with finish or greek people, that we doesn't have with brazilians or angolans..

You share a common general cultural and historical background with the europeans, you share a common language with the brazilians... I don't know. The situation is the same with me and Canadians. I share the same language with people from Quebec, but I have common things with Europeans that I don't have with people from America.

My brother's godfather has never felt more European than now, since he lives in... Shangai.

some times I really have some doubts if this is the right way for us all..

Of course it is.
Europe means also the peace between us, for half a century.

for instance, imagine this scenario, I'm a portuguese boy, and I get lost in Tokio (neutral territory), who do you think I would like to find an angolan or a icelandic or macedonian?? and you? (not only Olivier, you too).. I think that an angolan guy would be hable to help me a lot more..

If he has no map, he won't.

of course for many countries this questions don't make sense, like Finland for instance, but to countries like portugal, france, spain, uk, or holland I think this questions are very important..

Why is it different in Finland and here? I don't understand...

is there really an european feeling..?

It grows.

and just another thing I remember now, on the other day I heard on the radio that portugal is the only european country that doesn't have life sentences.. I got really shocked.. I always thaught that countries like Finland, Nederlands.. wouldn't also have that kind inhumane sentences.. this all about the new International Court .. because many people here think we shouldn't sign that agreement because that court can condemn people to life.. here the max is 25years, and I think is more than enough..
are we really the only ones with that laws..

So, imagine the situation in USA with the death penalt. I don't imagine what are the jails in Angola... The European view of the human rights is different from the rest of the world.

I think that there isn't life sentences in any portuguese language country

I am not sure of it...

O.

[BossaNova]

hi,

just another quick answer because I really should be studying..

when I say that the situation is different for Finland, is simply because there aren't any other country in the world with finish language..

as to the human rights situation in Angola, yes it's very bad, but the entire situation is bad, one day all goes better and they have already better laws..

it's true there's an european humanism, but I think there's also a lusophone humanism..

well but I really need to study..

I'll answer soon with more detail..

.. and just a note, I change my opinions completly just in a sec..

and I know I say a lot of stupid and naive things.. at least in the internet, where you say all you think

just be cool, with Bossa Nova sound....

[Olivier]

when I say that the situation is different for Finland, is simply because there aren't any other country in the world with finish language..

Estonians speak finnish!

Olivier

[Antti]

Estonians speak finnish!

They speak Estonian. Estonian is close to Finnish, we understand each other somehow on a basic level, but many words have a totally different meanings, so there are sometimes funny misunderstandings.
But the situation between Finland and Estonia is different from Portugal-Brazil or France-Canada situation, because neither of us two has ever owned the country of the other, we are just simply "cousins" both of our people are originated from somewhere in the Urals.

[Olivier]

Estonians speak finnish!

They speak Estonian. Estonian is close to Finnish, we understand each other somehow on a basic level, but many words have a totally different meanings, so there are sometimes funny misunderstandings.
But the situation between Finland and Estonia is different from Portugal-Brazil or France-Canada situation, because neither of us two has ever owned the country of the other, we are just simply "cousins" both of our people are originated from somewhere in the Urals.

Ans what kind of funny misunderstandings do you know?
Tell us!

[BossaNova]

Ans what kind of funny misunderstandings do you know?
Tell us!

I don't know finnish or estonian, so here is my favorite misunderstanding portuguese-spanish, but there are many more..

portuguese: embaraçada(o) - embarassed

spanish : embarassada - pregnant

(ç and ss is pronounced the same way..)

oh and the italian one

prego - polite italian expresion used very often

portuguese - prego = nail

(in some regions the word prego is also used for cow steak)

[matt.berlin]

The case of France is a bit weird. They use the Euro in "metropolitan" France and the overseas départements (DOM) but not in the territoires in the Pacific. There they use the Pacific Franc, which is tied to the Euro.

So really, France does use the Euro in all parts of "France" itself, wherever that may be in the world. It just isn't used in all dependent territories.

The French are just bizarre.

[Olivier]

The case of France is a bit weird. They use the Euro in "metropolitan" France and the overseas départements (DOM) but not in the territoires in the Pacific. There they use the Pacific Franc, which is tied to the Euro.

So really, France does use the Euro in all parts of "France" itself, wherever that may be in the world. It just isn't used in all dependent territories.

The French are just bizarre.

Yes we are!

It's just because the territories have a great autonomy. New Caledonia, French Polynésia... have a local parlement and a local government. Officialy, these territories are not member of the European Union.

Each territory has now its own status. St Pierre et Miquelon (near Canada) is a collectivité territoriale, Mayotte (near the Comores) is a collectivité départementale...

On the other hand, the Franc Pacifique and the Franc CFA (communauté financière africaine) are linked to the euro. It's a bit like the people there used the euro.

[Antti]

Ans what kind of funny misunderstandings do you know?
Tell us!

Here are some I found: The Estonian word for interesting is like the finnish word funny, estonian for a slave is like finnish for a male horse, estonian for raw is like finnish for mature(this might be confusing), estonian for hungry is like finnish for a present, estonian for a cat is like finnish for a bag, estonian for a curl is like finnish for a seagul, estonian for swear is like finnish for bless. Gosh, this list seems confusing. And the book where I found these wasn't very clear, so they might all be just the opposite.

[Fons]

when I say that the situation is different for Finland, is simply because there aren't any other country in the world with finish language..

Estonians speak finnish!

Olivier

I thought that Estonian people speak "Estonish" or something.

[Donald]

The Finns can understand Estonian well. It sounds to them like the language from the 18th or 19th century. At least that's what a Finnish friend told me.