Ranking : the concept of trees

[EuroBillTracker]

Furthermore, I think many new forms of competitions could create a wealth of new ways to cheat/hack them. My experience is that the more complex a system is, the more weak links there may be (not necessarily, but likely). If someone can't win one competition even by cheating, then he will probably look at the other competitions and try to find ways to win one of them by cheating. And when he finds the ways, and this happens to all of the competitions, then there is a real mess for the webmaster to clean up - impossible mess, I should think.

I agree whole heartedly with this. The higher the incentive to hack the more likely a hack will happen.
This is why I was dubious to one of our competitor's attempt to start a contest based on total number of bills entered (which didn't get the many people onboard after all...) and why I didn't try something like this.

Anyway, I email Vangelis and he gave me a convincing story about his series which I will not divulge for obvious reaons. So let's not all get carried away, ok ?

[Skylimit]

But I like the Keep it simple -principle. And as I have said on another thread, I am one of those who are not very interested in all kinds of competitions, but would just like to see how the notes spread around and simply get a genuine hit or two sometime in the future (but not necessarily even that).

I agree, and must admit, that the homepage did the trick for me to join the website. It seemed very clear, very easy, very simple, and I was still sceptical about entering my first bill... I was not refered to the site, I was simply interested in the ways coins spread, in got in here by accident.

I must admit, that I did not understand what "best referers" meant, at first, but found out somewhere in the help ... It occured to me right away, that "best referers" are as valuable to this site as "max number of bills". I'm personally very interested in recalculating the scores, when combining the two, and find out who is making this site grow ...

At this moment, I don't know if it is worth the trouble, but I think so ... My tree is growing at a pace, after not even 1 week (!!)..., and soon my referrals will generate much more bills than I could possibly have had in my wallet, even if I did manage to "get older, loosing my hair, many years from now"

Some referrals are friends, others got tricked in here -> so I don't have a clue who they are, but I'm very eager to meet them on this forum some day ... some I already found, through their website link ... and I'm making some new maniac friends (waco, is the word ... )

From my friends, I will find out about their referral links ... from those I don't know, it will be a hell of a job ...

If I could get a complete list of my referals (I still have less than 10, so today this is still OK) and if I could drill down to find out about their referrals, I will be quite happy to inform you over time, how this is spreading, and what techniques pay off ...

It does not necessarily mean that the calculated score must be on the homepage ... Keep it simple, is the right attitude, ... , for all I care it can be hidden somwhere deep down [ some guy mailed me this morning to find out where he could retrieve his referral list -> so it not so obvious, let alone if we use more levels ...]

As the site grows however (did I ever say I want it tomorrow ?? ) Users will be more diversified than is the case today ...

I also agree with emmem, who states that we must be absolutely be certain about data integrity before we take this to the next level ....
BTW, once we reach the level where genuine hits are generated one a daily basis, we don't need anything more ... this site will go skyhigh

Kind regards, and appreciating the feedback
no offence

[Skylimit]

Nop, you're not. Maybe somebody is able to start a poll about it.

This idea is still in a primitive state. I got some valuable feedback. Full disclosure : it is part of a personal project I launched about 12 years ago (nothing to do with euro-notes, dollars, or even the internet -- was it invented yet ?? but based on the same principle) I was very impressed with the results, and therefore I know this can work.

As for now, like any model, there is no use in discussing this without actual data... I will be happy to conduct this experiment, without bothering the forum with it, and come back with results (i hope), within a few months.

[smh]

If they read this, they are probably happy, thinking "I made it, now the real users begin to lose their interest and quit this. I made it collapse!

[Mr Euro]

People People People....

Eurobilltracker.com is very simple:

More Visitors> More Bills> More Hits>More Fun

There is no need for complex referral schemes, nor for complex competitions to get more visitors. Inputting bills that is the key, nothing else.

I for one, do think if there should be an improvement to the site, it should be personalstat improvements. You know like % bills/country %total value %...

[emmem]

Whew. Since last time I read this post many things were added. An it’s only 20 hours later. Let's add some too

If they read this, they are probably happy, thinking "I made it, now the real users begin to lose their interest and quit this. I made it collapse!

If this is true, then this is a very bad thing. If the genuine users lose interest less valid data is entered so the database gets even more polluted. Relatively speaking of course.

If I get a hit with a fake user I won’t be happy about it. But it won’t be a big disaster either. It won’t make me quite EBT if I found out something like this. Because EBT is not only about tracking to me. It’s also about collecting (data of) those notes. And the possibility of downloading a CSV file is a valuable bonus.

Eurobilltracker.com is very simple:

More Visitors> More Bills> More Hits>More Fun

There is no need for complex referral schemes, nor for complex competitions to get more visitors. Inputting bills that is the key, nothing else.

I for one, do think if there should be an improvement to the site, it should be personalstat improvements. You know like % bills/country %total value %...

Calculating the percentage of your bills in the country or total is something that’s easy to calculate. But when thinking about it I see a trace of competition there too. You're competing with your own country or against the whole EBT. What if some users start thinking if I want to gain 0,1% I need to enter X notes.

[bhoeyb]

People People People....

Eurobilltracker.com is very simple:

More Visitors> More Bills> More Hits>More Fun

There is no need for complex referral schemes, nor for complex competitions to get more visitors. Inputting bills that is the key, nothing else.

I for one, do think if there should be an improvement to the site, it should be personalstat improvements. You know like % bills/country %total value %...

Yes, that's right. Lets keep things simple ... no complex competition,... just try to add your little stone to EBT on your own way ...

[Skylimit]

I have a multiple hit Not the kind I was looking for however ...

More Visitors> More Bills> More Hits>More Fun

This part we definitely agree on ... How do you get more visitors ? Refer them to this site ... don't tell me that afterwards you don't care how many people actually registered through you ? You probably don't...

There is no need for complex referral schemes, nor for complex competitions to get more visitors. Inputting bills that is the key, nothing else.

Strange, the last part we also agree on ... It's all about inputting bills ... And you do your part, and the people you referred to this site, also do their part ... In no time, you will see that it is impossible for you to even come near the number off bills that people put in, which YOU referred to this site ... So the message is double, and is chrystal clear on the homepage : do your part of the input, and refer as many users to the site as possible -> competetion #bills + competition for top referer ...

I don't see how else to interpret this simple message

The strange part however ... While this is chrystal clear on the homepage, nobody in here seems to give a rats ass about competition ... so why are the counters on the homepage then ? Maybe you do believe, after all, that other users are tickled to be number one

Although I personally will never compete for inputting more than 10.000 bills (this is really crazy), I do believe I can take a number of users to this site, of which I know in advance, they will bring numerous others too ... I am also not interested in being number one referer, but I am interested in my personal tree ... It would be nice to drill down ...

So, this forum tells us : "this is the place where you post your personal wishes ... any ideas to improve the website can be posted here" Which is exactly what I'm doing ... It is, I think not a competition in "welles/nietes"

I don't like to compete in anything, only participate

[bhoeyb]

We have a sort of competition. Countries vs Countries. Users vs Users. That's good enough for me. If you start with getting higher levels, you will get higher fake hits/notes entered, I'm sure of it.

I totally agree with you.

Yes, totaly right More fakers = more work to delete them = less time to enter notes
Maybe a new way to cheat: cracking the code for making seral numbers and entering lots of notes to get high into the top users list ... a new problem for the futur How to deal with that

Ooh my god ... Today, I've received a bunch of brand new unused Belgian banknotes ... ofcourse with consecutive numbers ... I'll be a serialist soon ... ... Sorry, but I have to register these notes too ...

[Mr Euro]

More Visitors> More Bills> More Hits>More Fun

This part we definitely agree on ... How do you get more visitors ? Refer them to this site ... don't tell me that afterwards you don't care how many people actually registered through you ? You probably don't...

I've been posting many threads about ways to promote the site. One of those was to send in emails to head-editors of media. In Portugal we had succes we that tactic. Also did I post a thread about making promotion while being on holiday. This all without referral code. It supports the Mr Euro-formula: More Visitors> More Bills> More Hits>More Fun which leads to more visitors>more bills > more more more
I do use the referral code in my emails and irc-signoffs, but I don't actually care about that. I only care about getting a real hit and many support this theory. I'm sure of it.

There is no need for complex referral schemes, nor for complex competitions to get more visitors. Inputting bills that is the key, nothing else.

Strange, the last part we also agree on ... It's all about inputting bills ... And you do your part, and the people you referred to this site, also do their part ... In no time, you will see that it is impossible for you to even come near the number off bills that people put in, which YOU referred to this site ... So the message is double, and is chrystal clear on the homepage : do your part of the input, and refer as many users to the site as possible -> competetion #bills + competition for top referer ...

I don't see how else to interpret this simple message

You don't need to interpret this simple message. I don't want any competition. I only want hits and many of the EBT are only interested in that. Referraltree is smelling too much scam for me. So my message is simpel inputting many bills and keep off the referralscam.

[Skylimit]

Referraltree is smelling too much scam for me. So my message is simpel inputting many bills and keep off the referralscam.

What is scam ?
What does your last sentence mean : "keep off the referralscam"?

[Craft]

This site is really a good example of "Many small brooks make a great river".

[HNL]

This site is really a good example of "Many small brooks make a great river".

Sorry, I don't quote the whole text, it is very much .

But I agree with you. For me: it is fun to enter a lot notes, but my purpose is the same as the one of eurobilltracker. Get some (real ) hits and take care to put all your notes you can get into the database of this site. And yes, in that case: Many small brooks make a great river!

[Skylimit]

Entering 60 notes can take you to your first promotion, which is easy to accomplish, but intended as a stimulus. Acquiring 50.000 points is near to impossible when only 250.000 notes are registered ... But do we really know ?

Other questions : would de-jo and Kockske be on top in this new ranking, or would vkem be an important player in this competition? Who knows, maybe he would be on top of a tree with virtually all Finnish competitors, with could give him about 15.000 points...

The idea is to boost the number of users, but not in abolute numbers, we reward users who bring new dedicated users to the site.

Currently my rank is "none" ... so I will leave this idea to comment on by the more experienced players.
Kind regards.

Did anyone ever read my initial post ... it never was about being number one, it was always about ranking ... Somewhere down this discussion, ranking fell out ... I wrote, in day one, as a guest in my first post, that it should be VERY EASY to acquire your FIRST rank, and that this is intended as a stimulus to ACQUIRE YOUR NEXT RANK

I never stated it should stimulate the players to be NUMBER ONE, which is IMPOSSIBLE anyway ... so NOBODY will be CRAZY enough to DARE CHALLENGE the number one players, because for starters they are 6 MONTHS + ahead ... (scores can be reset at any given time)

About the RANKING-system : it should be clear, but it should also be CORRECT, and it should be DISCOURAGING FOR FAKERS ... If the system is not clear to you guys, I personally think that the rules are very simple ... and a nice report could be produced on how you actually managed to come to your score ... which would be clear to any user that is over 12 years old, provided they understand what "referral" means, which is, I admit, not clear at first ... And provided they understand, what a referral of the next level means (which is basically the same, only, your referral did it this time)

Also important is, the deeper down the tree, the less credit you get for it.
And also important, it stops at level 3. You could calculate the score without actually showing the user names behind it (which for privacy reasons may be good, but I am in favor for a system where the user can decide for himself if his tree is visible or not ...)

About a COMPLEX ranking system : which I believe it is not ...
Everybody is interested to find out if VENUS WILLIAMS is still the number one tennis player, while 95% of the people have no clue how the WTA ranking works, and 99,9999999% of them will never be able the CHALLENGE VENUS WILLIAMS. Still, it's kinda interesting to know how she's doing, to see her play, to know she has a sister which happens to be in her FAMILY TREE, and happens to be NUMBER TWO... what are the odds for that ????

It is also interesting to know that she's Afro-American, to know how many (little) Afro-American women ever made it to the top, to know that 2 BELGIAN top tennis players, are currently DARING TO CHALLENGE the ladies, but always seem to do very will, until they HIT VENUS ... What are the odds, that 2 Belgian toptennis players, are challenging two, Afro-American sisteres, at any given time ?? Why do so many people watch tennis? Why all of a sudden, half of the Belgian population, watches tennis? Is there something appealing to watching competion ? Even if you never played ball yourself ... As the Belgian girls go up in the ranking, more and more people want to know how the ranking system works ... How is it possible that Kim Clijsters goes from place 7 to place 5 without even playing ??

In the poll here we see that males outnumber females ... maybe males are more interested in watching competition ...

If you don't agree, please explain why the topscorers are on YOUR HOMEPAGE ...

Anyway ... nobody is interested to
a) play tennis at toplevel
b) break the world record in swimming
c) jumping 5 meters high
d) driving a car at 320 km/hour
e) play in the premier league, himself

But so many people watch it every day, and only get interested in how the ranking works, on rare occasions, like when their favorites seem to be going up in the ranking ...

Hope it is absolutely clear now, that is was never about being number one,
I salute you

[Craft]