Ranking : the concept of trees

[Olivier]

A team consist of a team-leader, and 10 team-members.
The team gets points for entering note numbers + for referring new users to the site (thus becoming a powerful promotion team) in the same multi-level tree concept as described above.

Hello!

I discover these new ideas! It's quite interesting!
I just don't like the idea of a team, maybe because I feel individualistic!

In a canadian tracking site, I've seen this kind of "teams"... I didn't know how to join, didn't know which team would like me to join... and I just switched off my browser.

I have read the discussion about competition or not (ranking or not)... I think we can focus on the both! I wish I got my first hit (when???) ... but I also like to see if I am still on the french ranking list, on the world list, etc.

For the moment, the system is easy to understand: 1 bill = 1 point. The simplicity and the clearance is also something we have to keep, especially for the newcomers.

I like the idea of "clearing" the scores every year. It's nice for the ones who have discovered the site recently.

Now... the debate is on what can be done. The webmaster has already a lots of to do!

Olivier

[Olivier]

So I think this shows that most users only have access to a limited amount of notes, mostly the ones they have in their wallets at any particular time, and bother to input them at EBT. Considering this, I think it is rather absurd to suppose that a lot of users would suddenly get interested in competition over inputting more notes than others, let alone winning the race, when the winners are now so far away.

Well, It's true that for some people like me, who have just their own bills, it's impossible to be in the top! Anyway, I like the idea that I am still in the first 50 of the world. And I am in the top of many countries: France, Italy, Malta, Monaco, Vatican...

It's a part of the game, like having hits. The chance of having a hit is very small for the people who only have entered just a few bills...

Anyway, I agree this is not the only point to focus. I would say, when I get my first hit, I'll start to think more about the hits and less about the ranking lists...

But the rest, 64%, has been achieved by over 99% of users. You should keep in mind that these 99% of users make this site interesting because they live all around the eurozone and enter small but tasty excerpts of the ocean of euros: If you get a hit on a note entered by one of the 38 mass inputters then you may think that "Oh, that's nice, but it was likely to happen". But think if you live in, say, Portugal and get a hit by someone living in the rural Finnish Lapland who has entered only 20 notes, then you would certainly be very surprised and happy (and so would the Finn too).

I wish it happened to me!!

I think our first job should be to have a regular newsletter (monthly?), especially for those who don't enter many bills, or don't come often to the site... And to work on the FAQ, maybe the design of the site... (?)

[Olivier]

If the system is not clear to you guys, I personally think that the rules are very simple ... and a nice report could be produced on how you actually managed to come to your score ... which would be clear to any user that is over 12 years old, provided they understand what "referral" means, which is, I admit, not clear at first ...

Please, keep within polite limits in the tone of your postings. In order to win support for an idea, I think it's not very productive to make - even indirectly - people think they are estimated to have a mental capacity of a less than 12 year old if they don't fully agree

Woaw! The discussion was "punchy" when I was on vacations!

The debate is just strong because... you don't agree!

Can't we have a better ranking system while we keep the first function of EBT: tracking euros?
After all the ranking lists are just online to encourage people to enter more bills... We should not discourage the newcomers, and we have to stimulate those who have started to enter some bills in the base.

And you know what... ? For me, the most important is that I enjoy playing on the site, which allows me to discuss with people from all Europe. Even to meet them!
(what about this EBT meeting in Paris? )

Olivier

[Olivier]

The strange part however ... While this is chrystal clear on the homepage, nobody in here seems to give a rats ass about competition ... so why are the counters on the homepage then ? Maybe you do believe, after all, that other users are tickled to be number one

Do rats have ass?

I propose that these counters disappear! So, we would have more place to other informations!

I would like to read more details about the bills, in the comments. It is a bit frustrating, when you have a hit, not to know more than its location. Did the last player get the bill in a shop? Is it fold? Dirty?

So, this forum tells us : "this is the place where you post your personal wishes ... any ideas to improve the website can be posted here" Which is exactly what I'm doing ...

Thank you for that!!!
We all appreciate your interest and your proposals, I'm sure!

[Olivier]

OK, got the message.
(And regretting ever having participated in this discussion. )

Don't be, Craft!

Cooooooome baaaaaack!!!

[Olivier]

The Rank is a way of EBT for saying "thank you" to the user who bothered to register other users, which may in turn bring in others ...

Would it more simple that we just get a "bonus" for each referer?

[Skylimit]

I didn't know how to join, didn't know which team would like me to join... and I just switched off my browser.
Olivier

Funny how you put this. There are so many prerequisites before you get to teams, and you never really know who's into this, because there's 5700 users and only very few are into chatting on this forum.

The idea of teams was never elaborated in this thread because the way I saw it before I registered as Newbie, was that teams could only come into effect after ranking ... and we still have no consensus around ranking ...
because nobody here is into raking.
So teams, is something very distant, which we will never have, I think. Even if we wanted to.

What I think is : if someone were to ask a very silly statistic, and the Webmaster was willing to implement it, even if I would personally not be interested, I would no go great lenghts in trying to stop the implementation. I would simply never look at it, once implemented.

I mean, the more statistics the better (to quote Flip the Coin)
The more you can discover at the site the better ... because at first I checked out everything more than once a day, now the check is very fast, and I actually don't spend so much time at the actual site any more.

I will still input bills, but I'm not sure I will visit the site multiple times every day to check out on everything... and just logging on to check if you have a hit, and then log off again, is something that will eventually lead to not logging on anymore, since a hit is very unlikely to happen, unless you entered 2000+ notes. And rarely logging on, leads to not inputting bills anymore ...

So a bit of movement, while waiting for a hit, I thought, could help... The first step, ranking, I personally don't see as a "major cultural change", it's just a label ... you have forum ranking, and it's also just a label, seen that...
And referral already exists ... so where's the big difference ?
I just see this as "a little thingy". Is it the fear for fakers ? I don't know.
Because I never saw this as a list of the top-ten in rank ..., I saw it as a rank you could see when double clicking the user name ... and to be used somewhere in a later stage of developing. It starts there.

The forum is where I spend the most time, but shouldn't it actually have to be on the EBT-site itself where people spend time ?

Let me give you an example : boursorama is a kind of a dull site where nearly 1.000.000 people check their portfolio everyday ... Although everybody knows that stock-picking on short term is the same a playing in a casino, they organize a game every year, which wins prizes. Make a portfolio and have as many profit as you can make in 3 months... Casino, really... Still it's there. Pro's will never look at it, but it keeps the site lively.

I think people are into games, setting objectives, statistics, and knowing who's on top, even if they never come near.

I didn't comment on teams here really ... cause I don't see it happen. That simple.

djiezes, what a long post again ...

[Olivier]

djiezes, what a long post again ...

Yes!! "Tu es bavard" as we say in french... (a bavard speaks a lot).

Time to go to bed now... (1am)

"read you soon!"

O.

[Skylimit]

I like the idea of "clearing" the scores every year. It's nice for the ones who have discovered the site recently.
Olivier

You could also put the "users of the month" up there in stead of users of the year, which would make it fresh on a regular basis (or user of Q1, Q2, Q3, Q4 ... but this sounds more complicated)

In fact, once more, this prooves that there has been valuable input in this thread, from members that are not into any of my ideas ... In fact, lots of what Craft said, is now part of my discours, as it is exactly what I want, lots of users who input small but tasty excerpts of the ocean of bills ...

There is a difference between a "means" and an "end". We all want the same, but I'm discussing a technique to eventually get there, asap.

[Skylimit]

You could also put the "users of the month" up there

New users could then get a taste of the game.
While regular users would see some different names up there from time to time. Which would make the site, more dynamic.

[Skylimit]

For the moment, the system is easy to understand: 1 bill = 1 point. The simplicity and the clearance is also something we have to keep, especially for the newcomers.

Now... the debate is on what can be done. The webmaster has already a lots of to do!

Olivier

a) I am in favour for simplicity towards newcomers i.e. on the communication on the homepage, and trying to get their attention, and making them enter their first bill. I don't see why the simple rules we now have, would be in the way, and stop us from implementing something less simple, that can coexist and give regular members a thrill.

b) it's a long way to Tipparary, I understand that. Does the webmaster always work completely on his own ? It's quite an achievement, but is that still possible if the number of users goes tenfold, or more ? Because more and more people will post wishlists.

[Skylimit]

Anyway, I like the idea that I am still in the first 50 of the world. And I am in the top of many countries: France, Italy, Malta, Monaco, Vatican...

It's a part of the game, like having hits. The chance of having a hit is very small for the people who only have entered just a few bills...

As I am new, and not on any level yet, still I like the idea I just went up in the ranking another 20 places (because someone needed to give me 40 EUR and only had 5 EUR notes ... too bad for him)

I like to check out how I am doing, compared to other users in Belgium. I like to check out what new users registered, and every user on my referral list, I consider as a HIT !! especially if they come back several times a week to enter bills, and knowing it is not so easy to find these new members, even if you know hundreds of people.

I like information, it's my profession. The more the better. And I am not bothered with the statistics I personally don't find interesting. Live and let live. Other people will be. Let them.

All of this maybe, because I realize, that having a hit so soon, is not impossible, but highly unlikely.

It's all part of the game. Now, Olivier, where you say that you think of removing scores from the homepage... we don't know really why a new member enters his first bill, do we ? I visited another euro tracking site before signing up. I thought the idea was worthless at first ... because I realized a hit is unlikely. But then I came to this site, and for some reason I overcome my sceptisism ... And then you got me.

I can only speak for myself ... but maybe we can have a poll : "Why did you enter your first bill" ... provided you actually know why it was ...
curiousity ? Or the thrill ... it's like buying a lottery ticket (which is also a game by the way)

[Skylimit]

Woaw! The discussion was "punchy" when I was on vacations!

The debate is just strong because... you don't agree!
Olivier

Yeach, well, when I wrote "Case closed" I was planning on quitting and never coming back. We missed a moderator in here.

But in my irritation I never directly or indirectly referred to Craft, or anyone in particular, or any specific thread. It's just a sentiment that new ideas by new members are not welcomed, but buried. I can be wrong on this.

[Skylimit]

Can't we have a better ranking system while we keep the first function of EBT: tracking euros?
After all the ranking lists are just online to encourage people to enter more bills... We should not discourage the newcomers, and we have to stimulate those who have started to enter some bills in the base.
Olivier

The means : encourage newcomers to enter new bills (an refer new members!)
The end : a great river (from many small brooks)

[Skylimit]

Do rats have ass?

I propose that these counters disappear! So, we would have more place to other informations!

I think rats have ass ... but don't really give one, whether they have one or not ...

Are you absolutely certain you know exactly why new users register ..

After they have to overcome the sceptisism ... and I personally also hesitated because I like anonymity - and e-mail address is required.

It was only when trying to enter an anonymous bill, that the help text convinced me I should create a user-id, and I understood the purpose of the site.

btw, I was not referred in here, so I had no clue