Different taboos in our countries.

Olivier · Post by **Olivier** » Sun Jun 08, 2003 5:42 am

Strange topic...

The reason is that I have discovered the taboos are not the same in Europe and here (in America). I am also careful about this cultural difference...

For instance, people are very reluctant to speak about salaries and money in France, which is not the case in Canada. Here, the question of the "accent" (the way people speak french) is very sensitive. The relationship of the english Canada with the USA and the United Kingdom is too (they feel more and more American but not too much, and they still like the link with the Queen of England).

People are more reluctant to talk about sex in the USA than in Canada, especialy our neighbours of the east coast. A lots of people come from New England to Montreal to see nude dancers on stage, female and male.

So I wonder, what should I avoid to speak about, in your country?

Olivier

Tiger · Post by **Tiger** » Sun Jun 08, 2003 10:18 am

I think an important taboo in Belgium is het Vlaams Blok, an extreme rightwinged party, racist, and sometimes even a little fascist...
In Belgium we have a 'cordon sanitaire' around the party, which means no other democratic party wants to form a coalition with the Vlaams Blok.

In this way they are kept out of the majority, and will always stay in the apposition.
Unless ofcourse, they ARE the majority, and then we've got a really big problem!

Anyway, at this moment it's changing, but before the most recent elections it was really not-done talking about the Vlaams Blok, or cordon sanitaire. They weren't invited on television, no newspapers interviewed them, they were just concealed!
And I think this had just the opposite effect. Vlaams Blok is still growing and growing in Belgium, a really scary evolution in our political system...

Like I said, at this moment the taboo is diminishing, but people still look very strange if you try to make a objective statement about the Vlaams Blok. Most people are scared even to talk about it! And that way, they just let things go on like they were before.
I really don't like the Vlaams Blok, I think they are just extremistisc racists, but still you can't just ignore them. That way they will just grow like a tumor, and when they become too big it's too late to do anything against them!

BossaNova · Post by **BossaNova** » Sun Jun 08, 2003 4:57 pm

hmmm very interisting topic.. but hard to give a good answer..

let me try..

for instance talking about child abuse was always a taboo here in Portugal, people just pretended that this problem didn't exist in Portugal.. by this days, people don't talk about anything else...

homossexuality also, was not a very common topic for a conversation, again it's one of the favorites of the moment... (all this due to a major child abuse scandal that involves politicians, artists and other influent people..) one very big problem is that many people now mix pedophilia and homossexuality...

politician's private life, also used to be a not spoken issue, this is one of the fews taboos I like, but recently is more common to see interviews to the wifes, children of politicians..

I don't like this americanization of politics... we should choose only the guy that's the candidate, not the entire family..

money and salaries is of corse a taboo.. and I like this way.. why do others should know about our earnings?

people, specially old ones, love to talk about health, but AIDS or hepatytis are of corse not much apreciated topics..

descolonization, and the war in Africa and India, also have many taboos, you can talk about that, but some specif issues are just not wellcome.. only superficial analysis should be taken, to avoid misunderstandings.. some inocent words can lable you easily as a fascist..

never, but never refer to Spain when talking about Portugal, any comparision, where Spain would look better or equal, or something like "here in South people do this and that, I saw it in Spain bla bla bla", this can bring some problems to you..

hmm I guess this are some, but there are many more taboos here, maybe the other portuguese users can bring their own opinion, and maybe they disagree mines.. let's ear from you

bn

Olivier · Post by **Olivier** » Mon Jun 09, 2003 12:08 am

Tiger wrote:I think an important taboo in Belgium is het Vlaams Blok, an extreme rightwinged party, racist, and sometimes even a little fascist...
In Belgium we have a 'cordon sanitaire' around the party, which means no other democratic party wants to form a coalition with the Vlaams Blok.

It reminds of the situation in Austria. I have talked to my cousine and her boyfriend (they both live in Vienna). They were shocked by the european attitude againts the OFP of Jorg Haider.
We talked about something else...

Olivier · Post by **Olivier** » Mon Jun 09, 2003 12:13 am

BossaNova wrote:for instance talking about child abuse was always a taboo here in Portugal, people just pretended that this problem didn't exist in Portugal.. by this days, people don't talk about anything else...

Yes, I've read it on Internet...

BossaNova wrote: homossexuality also, was not a very common topic for a conversation, again it's one of the favorites of the moment... (all this due to a major child abuse scandal that involves politicians, artists and other influent people..) one very big problem is that many people now mix pedophilia and homossexuality...

Here, the media talk a lot about homophobia. Gays and lesbians have got the right to marry, like in the Netherlands and Belgium.

BossaNova wrote: politician's private life, also used to be a not spoken issue, this is one of the fews taboos I like, but recently is more common to see interviews to the wifes, children of politicians.. I don't like this americanization of politics... we should choose only the guy that's the candidate, not the entire family..

I agree with you on that. I was suprised after the election of may (in Quebec) to see that the new prime minister was on stage with his wife and his children.

codi · Post by **codi** » Mon Jun 09, 2003 6:45 pm

BossaNova gave a good answer.

I'd like to talk about other taboo: the portuguese bull fights (touradas).

In Portugal this theme causes a lot of problems. Touradas are loved and hated.
There are many questions around this: tradition vs modernity, crime vs art, kill the bull during the show or after it, the animal rights, the legality of the show and many other.
Of course tourada is a business, specially in Ribatejo, a region in the centre of the country, so many interests are involve...

So... don't tall about it, and (more important ) DON'T compare Portuguese and Spanish touradas...

nodisch18 · Post by **nodisch18** » Mon Jun 09, 2003 10:07 pm

Tiger wrote: In Belgium we have a 'cordon sanitaire' around the party, which means no other democratic party wants to form a coalition with the Vlaams Blok.

First of all i want to say that i'm everything but a racist!

But what i really wanted to say is that i think it is a scandal that "democratic" parties don't want to discuss with a other democratic elected party about forming a coallition.

Doesn't democraty means "Power of the people"....? So if a nation has voted for a party, and it doesn't matter what kind of a party, it should allways join the discussing of forming a new gouvernement!

Offcourse i hope that Vlaams Blok never end up in the gouvernement of belgium but i think it is a shame when parties say, before the elections, that they never are going to form a party with a "wrong" party.

I don't think that that is democratic!

Allways listen to the people!!!

Skylimit · Post by **Skylimit** » Mon Jun 09, 2003 10:39 pm

I don't agree here.

The cordon sanitaire was badly communicated.

It merely means that for instancde the socialist and liberal parties do not wish to be part of a gouvernment with extreme right wing.

I would surely never vote for those parties again if they were to form a coalition with VB. So they really have no choice.

VB will have to seek an alliance on the right of the centre ...

It would be better maybe if they were part of a gouvernment someday, because otherwise they will only grow, grow, grow -> end of democracy.

BossaNova · Post by **BossaNova** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 12:25 am

codi wrote:BossaNova gave a good answer.

I'd like to talk about other taboo: the portuguese bull fights (touradas).

In Portugal this theme causes a lot of problems. Touradas are loved and hated.
There are many questions around this: tradition vs modernity, crime vs art, kill the bull during the show or after it, the animal rights, the legality of the show and many other.
Of course tourada is a business, specially in Ribatejo, a region in the centre of the country, so many interests are involve...

So... don't tall about it, and (more important ) DON'T compare Portuguese and Spanish touradas...

Thanks

but this touradas taboo I guess is more true to Center and South, then North.. I can be wrong, but I guess a large majority of people up North are against it, and no one has problems to say that, at least I don't have any...

for instance, I don't know anyone that ever went to see a tourada... unless they're hiding that dark past from me..

bn

PS: fortunetly far right parties never had chance (until now..) in Portugal, there's one recently created that got a ridiculous result.. last position in the last elections, even maoists from POUS got more votes:lol:

Marrokina · Post by **Marrokina** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 3:20 am

I think one of the most important taboos these days in Portugal, apart from the homophobia and the paedophilia scandals, is the imigration.

I'm not racist, far from that, but just see the figures:

In Portugal we have 450 000 registered immigrants - not counting the illegal ones.
We have about 10 000 000 habitants - immigrants included.

5% of the population is immigrant, and they add up to 10% of the working population.

Unfortunately, not all these people came to Portugal with good intentions. A great majority just wants to work, make some money and be able to go home a build something there. Others want to stay here for good.
But some of these people comes here to exploit the ingenuity of the rest of them. They have mafias controlling the illegal trafic of men and women to work in the civil construction and in the prostituition. And they blackmail them.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I do not know what will happen when all the construction boom that is happening now is over, and the immigrants find themselves with no money. I'm afraid that they'll start stealing, and probably in very violent ways, because some of them carry weapons...

I feel that nobody discusses this subject in Portugal. We see lots of foreign people going to civil construction sites (such as the Euro 2004 stadiums), but we do not try to figure out what will happen if, someday, they can't find a job.

Sorry for my English, when I'm trying to explain an idea I can be very confusing...

Olivier · Post by **Olivier** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 6:58 am

nodisch18 wrote: I don't think that that is democratic!
Allways listen to the people!!!

I understand your point of view, which was the one of my relatives in Vienna. They told me the FPO had been elected, so the rest of Europe had no right to boycott the austrian officials.

On the other hand, how can a democracy fight the political parties which deny the basement of democracy?

It's the same problem in France with the National Front (another french taboo).

Olivier

nodisch18 · Post by **nodisch18** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 9:20 am

Olivier wrote:On the other hand, how can a democracy fight the political parties which deny the basement of democracy?

That is true, it is difficult. But i believe in the people and if they elected a party it should allways join the discussing about forming a new gouvernment.

skylimit wrote:It would be better maybe if they were part of a gouvernment someday, because otherwise they will only grow, grow, grow -> end of democracy.

I don't think that it would be the end of democracy in a country in western europe. I think that if they would join the gouvernment (so with a other party) and it went totaly wrong, the people would raise their voice! And that other party could let the gouvernment collapse.

Your right if they where allowed to grow and grow and even get more than 50% of the votings then it would really be bad....! Because they could form a gouvernment on their own.

Skylimit · Post by **Skylimit** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 10:23 am

I very much understand the concerns Marokkina has.
It has been a public "debate" here for the last 15 years,
where all the traditional politics could come up with was being
politically correct ... (= ignore the "problem")

This is why people turn away from traditional politics.

Have an open discussion, and first of all admit that this is a topic that
lives among the people. I am also not in favour of an uncontrolled instream of immigrants. I think Europe should be very careful how they move around in that area, because right wing is on the verge of a breakthrough in many countries (France, Austria, Germany, Denmark, Belgium, Holland (Pim has gone meanwhile), ...

Plus, the new countries from the east on their own will already account for a major inflow of European "immigrants". It is technically necessary this happens. Many countries have a shrinking population with an increasing share of elder people. We will never have a pension without immigrants.

Antti · Post by **Antti** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 10:29 am

about VB, do you think they get lots of protest votes? Like here in Finland in the last elections, one of the most voted candidates was a former wrestler-fighter-whatever-idiot from a right-wing party who probably got lots of votes just because he was so different.

nodisch18 · Post by **nodisch18** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 10:39 am

I do think so.

I know that in belgium it is an obligation to vote. i think there were lots of protest-votes.

Maybe some of the belgium members can give the answer.